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Just read some interesting historical article on Martin Luther - one word shock

#31chukie_suePosted 1/14/2013 1:28:58 PM
Luther regularly admitted that he had a bad temper and a potty mouth. I probably would too if the church was effectively damning people with interdictions while exploiting the poor, practicing simony, and going public with their already horrific sexual crimes. At teh time he produced more fruit than the Roman Catholic church by far.
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"Christ is with those of humble mind, not with those who exalt themselves over his flock." -St. Clement of Rome.
#32chukie_suePosted 1/14/2013 1:32:01 PM
From: LastManStanding | #106
What I read also that Luther who broke off from the Catholic Church had insane hate for the Church, and would gather support from people that were not believers.
I'm sorry but this is not how disciple of Christ behaves. That is not what Christ teaches. He broke up the Church and interesting enough three factors that are strong in the fight vs Satan, which he fears were removed from the faith:
- the Eucharist
- Role of Mary Mother of God
- Archangel Michael


To my knowledge, Luther didn't hate the church. I would charge you to find a quote of his where he said he does. His purpose had been ideally reform That's why his 95 theses primarily addressed to the political errors of the Catholic Church, not the Theological ones.
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"Christ is with those of humble mind, not with those who exalt themselves over his flock." -St. Clement of Rome.
#33LastManStanding(Topic Creator)Posted 1/14/2013 2:10:27 PM
chukie_sue posted...
From: LastManStanding | #106
What I read also that Luther who broke off from the Catholic Church had insane hate for the Church, and would gather support from people that were not believers.
I'm sorry but this is not how disciple of Christ behaves. That is not what Christ teaches. He broke up the Church and interesting enough three factors that are strong in the fight vs Satan, which he fears were removed from the faith:
- the Eucharist
- Role of Mary Mother of God
- Archangel Michael


To my knowledge, Luther didn't hate the church. I would charge you to find a quote of his where he said he does. His purpose had been ideally reform That's why his 95 theses primarily addressed to the political errors of the Catholic Church, not the Theological ones.


He changed lots and lots theological truths just look at the differences between Catholic Church and Protestants. These differences should not be there, removing 7 books from the Bible. That is changing things where one should not be even thinking about changing
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Divine Mercy - God Loves you as a sinner.
Christ Said: Before the Day of Justice, I am sending the Day of Mercy. (Diary 1588) Day of Mercy was declared in 2000
#34DoGCyNPosted 1/14/2013 2:25:45 PM
LastManStanding posted...
He changed lots and lots theological truths just look at the differences between Catholic Church and Protestants. These differences should not be there, removing 7 books from the Bible. That is changing things where one should not be even thinking about changing


I probably shouldn't dive into this but these books were not a part of the original Hebrew Scriptures iirc, and they don't align well with them either.

Also I would address your talk of saints. I agree with TRJ on this strongly. All Christians (born again believers) are saints. There is a difference between a sinner and a "saint who sins sometimes." We are called to Holiness, a Holiness found only in Jesus Christ. One thing I disagree so much on in the Catholic church is the order of -grace and works- when it comes to salvation.
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2 Corinthians 12:7-10
#35LastManStanding(Topic Creator)Posted 1/14/2013 2:33:56 PM
DoGCyN posted...
LastManStanding posted...
He changed lots and lots theological truths just look at the differences between Catholic Church and Protestants. These differences should not be there, removing 7 books from the Bible. That is changing things where one should not be even thinking about changing


I probably shouldn't dive into this but these books were not a part of the original Hebrew Scriptures iirc, and they don't align well with them either.

Also I would address your talk of saints. I agree with TRJ on this strongly. All Christians (born again believers) are saints. There is a difference between a sinner and a "saint who sins sometimes." We are called to Holiness, a Holiness found only in Jesus Christ. One thing I disagree so much on in the Catholic church is the order of -grace and works- when it comes to salvation.


We are called to be saints. Explain the orders of grace and works. Cannot remove books of the bible that been there for 1500 years
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Divine Mercy - God Loves you as a sinner.
Christ Said: Before the Day of Justice, I am sending the Day of Mercy. (Diary 1588) Day of Mercy was declared in 2000
#36DoGCyNPosted 1/14/2013 2:45:39 PM
LastManStanding posted...
Explain the orders of grace and works.


Exactly in that order. We are saved by Grace through Faith, not as a result of works...just like those good ole Ephesians 2:8-9 verses. Works are a result of being saved. May as well read verse 10 too as it elaborates on the -works- part.

LastManStanding posted...
We are called to be saints.


One becomes a saint the moment they put their faith in Christ.
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2 Corinthians 12:7-10
#37Polish_CrusaderPosted 1/14/2013 3:26:09 PM
LastManStanding posted...
The thing is that Luther came and took Church of Christ apart. Created his own inspired institutions, claiming to be in the right.
As I recall Christ was all about unity, peace, and love.


ROL!! haha. I almost choked on my cup of milk when i read this. I had to put my food down for this one.

Your right he was about unity. The complete opposite of the papacy in general: "Follow the pope or be excommunicated or die"

Look at the 4th crusade. Look at the various catholic massacres in germany and austria of people who just believed in different doctrine. Its amazing how many millions were killed just because the pope didnt like someone or some group. The papacy very often did the opposite of what christ preached. Especially our current pope. Benedict, who wrote in one of his 24+ books that christ is not the messiah described in the old testament. Im serious. Google it. Pope Benedict does not even believe christ is the messiah from the old testament. He said it in his book.

Rest of the world- 1
Catholic church- 0
#38JonWood007Posted 1/14/2013 3:28:50 PM
If you ask me, all you guys as far as your religions go are wrong.

Look, you can say whatever you want about Martin Luther, and you're probably right to some degree. But don't act like the catholic church is oh so innocent. Spoilers: it's not.

Humans and their human made religions, they all claim to be right, put the others' down by pointing out their flaws, while denying their own. You ever notice how the gods people worship often mirror themselves in some way? Even if you grew up in a society in which the god concept was forced on you and you ended up accepting it even though it's not necessarily what you wanted, that image of a god mirrors someone somewhere.

Why can't we just accept things as they are? X is a good idea, Y is a bad idea, generally good people sometimes have bad ideas, generally bad people sometimes have good ones. It's the nature of human society.
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#39DoGCyNPosted 1/14/2013 3:40:56 PM
JonWood007 posted...
If you ask me, all you guys as far as your religions go are wrong.

Look, you can say whatever you want about Martin Luther, and you're probably right to some degree. But don't act like the catholic church is oh so innocent. Spoilers: it's not.

Humans and their human made religions, they all claim to be right, put the others' down by pointing out their flaws, while denying their own. You ever notice how the gods people worship often mirror themselves in some way? Even if you grew up in a society in which the god concept was forced on you and you ended up accepting it even though it's not necessarily what you wanted, that image of a god mirrors someone somewhere.

Why can't we just accept things as they are? X is a good idea, Y is a bad idea, generally good people sometimes have bad ideas, generally bad people sometimes have good ones. It's the nature of human society.


What was your intention with this post? Just wonderin
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2 Corinthians 12:7-10
#40JonWood007Posted 1/14/2013 4:03:09 PM
Countering LMS's BS about how bad Martin Luther was while more or less implying his church is the one true one. Martin Luther ain't perfect, the catholic church is no better. Let's just accept ideas on their merit.
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Desktop: Phenom II X4 965 | 4 GB DDR3 | GTX 580 | 1 TB HD | W7 | 650W Antec | 1600x900
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