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Do you Christians here think children should read the bible?

#51Far421Posted 1/28/2013 1:11:25 PM
kozlo100 posted...
Sure, but you've indoctrinated your kid into living a lie in a nation hostile to his true beliefs. He'd have been much happier, and probably more successful, had you simply taught him to accept Islam and not question it too much.

Why didn't you just do that?


Because critical thinking is a tool useful for more than only deconverting from religions.
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#52JonWood007Posted 1/28/2013 1:35:33 PM(edited)
But don't you see the hypocrisy in saying that teaching kids how to think in the manner you agree with is fine, but to instill other values is "indoctrination"?


I think this photo I found on FB today sums up what I'm trying to get at.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/485976_10151447560418690_1556839903_n.jpg

Christianity, in my experience, is intellectually repressive. It teaches you to constantly immerse yourself in ideas that are friendly to religion, while remaining on guard against ideas that don't agree with it. It teaches that you are in a constant spiritual battle against Satan and that you should free from ideas that don't agree with religion, since it's Satan trying to lead you away from Christ. I know all Christian traditions are not like this, but Christianity has these...tendencies.

I'm for teaching people to think for themselves, to evaluate ideas critically. Should all ideas be exposed to children? Obviously not, as many have adult themes children can't grasp, or shouldn't be exposed to at that age. You make it sound like I would ban a Bible from my home if I had kids. I wouldn't. I would merely restrict it while they're young, as you would with other adult themed materials. Should 7 year olds be exposed to Pulp Fiction for example? I'd say no.

It will be practically impossible to avoid exposing my children to religion. The reason behind everything I do is because I belong to God and I have accepted it. My life will not make sense to children, and I am not about to leave my kids at home while I go to church, nor would I go to a church in which parents worshipped, while kids sat in an isolated room and watched secular cartoons or something.


Fair enough, we have freedom of religion in this country. I do have concerns about the impact religion has on kids though. I'm not talking about this from a governmental level. I don't think there should be a LAW against teaching kids religion.

You are saying that, even if I believe it to be true, I should not only raise my kids as atheists, but also to pretend that that's the only available option. You think you are attempting to remove bias by teaching them how to think, but they will be atheists for at least the first ten years of their lives, meaning they will be biased toward atheism. But the thing we must remember is that it is 100% impossible to remove bias. The lie of modernism is that reason removes bias. But you cannot be unbiased.


Common criticism Christians pose. Just because we can't avoid bias doesn't give us a license to just be as biased as we want. Christians often confuse attempting to remove bias and to remain objective as bias itself.

As for them being biased against it, maybe, but is thinking critically about ideas a bad thing? What's so bad about judging ideas based on merit, instead of accepting them blindly? Is it bad to actually make people have REASONS to believe what they believe? If your beliefs are true and valid, they should be able to stand on their own without needing to indoctrinate children who know no better into them. After all, critical thinking really doesn't have a bias...unless your ideas have no legitimate reasoning to back them up. It's only biased against weak/bad/unfounded ideas.

I also doubt most parents would lay into critical thinking in 5 year olds anyway though. Doing so would kinda kill the whole Santa Claus thing, for instance, and that's if they can even grasp it. However, I think by the time they're old enough to know Santa isn't real that we should be teaching critical thinking.
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#53Hustle KongPosted 1/28/2013 1:33:58 PM
Christianity, in my experience, is intellectually repressive. It teaches you to constantly immerse yourself in ideas that are friendly to religion, while remaining on guard against ideas that don't agree with it.


It is a wonder then that I was able to shrug off the yoke of indoctrination myself! What a mighty intellect I have!
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#54Hustle KongPosted 1/28/2013 1:35:44 PM
Note that my post was meant as a gentle jab, Johnwood. ;p
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#55fudrickPosted 1/28/2013 1:35:51 PM
Hustle Kong posted...
It is a wonder then that I was able to shrug off the yoke of indoctrination myself! What a mighty intellect I have!


Didn't you know that atheists are automatically more intelligent than theists?
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#56fudrickPosted 1/28/2013 1:37:30 PM
JonWood007 posted...
I also doubt most parents would lay into critical thinking in 5 year olds anyway though. Doing so would kinda kill the whole Santa Claus thing, for instance, and that's if they can even grasp it.


Can we talk about how f***ed up it is that some parents go so far to convince their children that Santa exists? It makes no sense to me
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#57kozlo100Posted 1/28/2013 1:37:46 PM
Far421 posted...
Because critical thinking is a tool useful for more than only deconverting from religions.


Alright, I'll concede Iran. We're getting too bogged down in details, so let's clean it up via hypothetical.

Same situation, except the nation you're now living in bans critical thinking. Let's disregard how and why you came to live in such a place, or why you produced a child once you were there. You have a kid, and if you teach him that critical thinking is a bad thing, he'll lead a happy and successful life, if you do the opposite he'll be miserable and destitute.

The point is to determine the difference between what gets you by in society and what you think is right.
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#58Far421Posted 1/28/2013 1:47:32 PM
kozlo100 posted...
Far421 posted...
Because critical thinking is a tool useful for more than only deconverting from religions.


Alright, I'll concede Iran. We're getting too bogged down in details, so let's clean it up via hypothetical.

Same situation, except the nation you're now living in bans critical thinking. Let's disregard how and why you came to live in such a place, or why you produced a child once you were there. You have a kid, and if you teach him that critical thinking is a bad thing, he'll lead a happy and successful life, if you do the opposite he'll be miserable and destitute.

The point is to determine the difference between what gets you by in society and what you think is right.


Firstly, we're now in a situation that does not coincide with reality or anything that could reasonably be in it. This entire scenario is now pointless, and I could probably overrun it in even more details than the Iran case.

I assume you were asking whether just getting by or doing what you think is right is more important. That is subjective. Also, critical thinking is so close to the core of the way I interact with the world that I can't reasonably imagine myself in this siutation at all.

However, the fact that you have to resort to such an extreme to have critical thinking become a con speaks highly of its value.
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#59JonWood007Posted 1/28/2013 1:48:05 PM
fudrick posted...
JonWood007 posted...
I also doubt most parents would lay into critical thinking in 5 year olds anyway though. Doing so would kinda kill the whole Santa Claus thing, for instance, and that's if they can even grasp it.


Can we talk about how f***ed up it is that some parents go so far to convince their children that Santa exists? It makes no sense to me


Well, as someone who once believed in Santa, I think it's nice to believe he exists, at least for a while. Really makes the holidays special and all. However, I don't think people should grow up believing he exists, never being told the truth.

I think if it gets to the point where the kid is putting 2 and 2 together, just tell them.
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#60fudrickPosted 1/28/2013 2:03:07 PM(edited)
Far421 posted...
Also, critical thinking is so close to the core of the way I interact with the world that I can't reasonably imagine myself in this siutation at all.


I imagine this is how a christian would feel about christianity

Far421 posted...
However, the fact that you have to resort to such an extreme to have critical thinking become a con speaks highly of its value.


I'm pretty sure kozlo values critical *thinking (I have no clue how this got cut out). This conversation is pretty decent evidence in support of that
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