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Do you Christians here think children should read the bible?

#61kozlo100Posted 1/28/2013 12:55:40 PM
Firstly, we're now in a situation that does not coincide with reality or anything that could reasonably be in it

Yes, that is the point of a hypothetical. To use absurd conditions to isolate specific points.

Yes, I am asking if you would chose to teach your child what will help them be happy and successful in society over what you think is right should the two be in conflict.

You identified that question, but did not answer it.
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The problem, then, is that if subjective worlds are experienced too differently, there occurs a breakdown in communication. -- Philip K. Dick
#62Far421Posted 1/28/2013 1:07:55 PM(edited)
kozlo100 posted...
Firstly, we're now in a situation that does not coincide with reality or anything that could reasonably be in it

Yes, that is the point of a hypothetical. To use absurd conditions to isolate specific points.

Yes, I am asking if you would chose to teach your child what will help them be happy and successful in society over what you think is right should the two be in conflict.

You identified that question, but did not answer it.


The situation is utterly absurd in this case, though. Critical thinking is the forte of humanity. It is how we progress. Without it, the law would be unenforcable. Also, critical thinking would be required to determine whether to teach the child about critical thinking.

The reason I didn't answer the question is because my personal opinion is irrelevant, and the question isn't an easy one to answer besides. Again, it is subjective.

Edit: Also, fudrick, you may be right about Christianity being as close to the core of some Christians as critical thinking is to me, but that is exactly the sort of problem I am deploring here. Ideas about what is right should be based on reason in the first place, not arbitrary rules and superstition.
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#63Hustle KongPosted 1/28/2013 1:10:40 PM
not arbitrary rules and superstition.


Like your valuation of reason, for one.

Of I did not already believe that it's important to instill reason in my children, you would have done a **** job at demonstrating why I should.
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Shooting Game never die.
It prays that the clover of luck be always in your mind.
#64Far421Posted 1/28/2013 1:20:59 PM
Hustle Kong posted...
not arbitrary rules and superstition.


Like your valuation of reason, for one.

Of I did not already believe that it's important to instill reason in my children, you would have done a **** job at demonstrating why I should.


You seem bitter. Usually, I'd prefer people to give me reasons why my arguments are bad. Of course, I did not ennumerate all the uses of reason because many of them are frankly very obvious.
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Pokemon White FC: 4341 2165 1292
#65kozlo100Posted 1/28/2013 1:25:39 PM
Far421 posted...
The situation is utterly absurd in this case, though.


Then pick a different one and answer that, or simply answer the question directly.

It's not difficult. Watch, I'll do it: In the instance that what I think is right differs from what will give my child a happy and successful life in the society we live in, I will teach my child what I think is right.

Now you do it.
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The problem, then, is that if subjective worlds are experienced too differently, there occurs a breakdown in communication. -- Philip K. Dick
#66Hustle KongPosted 1/28/2013 1:31:50 PM
You seem bitter


The hypocrisy of some atheists who have no problem installing their own version of what we think is right while referring to all others as "brainwashing/indoctrination/poisoning" is a little irksome, yeah. I prefer when we atheists don't look like negative-image fundies, for whatever reason.
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Shooting Game never die.
It prays that the clover of luck be always in your mind.
#67Hustle KongPosted 1/28/2013 1:33:14 PM
It's not difficult. Watch, I'll do it: In the instance that what I think is right differs from what will give my child a happy and successful life in the society we live in, I will teach my child what I think is right.


This can probably be assumed, but "what Kozlo said".
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Shooting Game never die.
It prays that the clover of luck be always in your mind.
#68Far421Posted 1/28/2013 1:48:08 PM
kozlo100 posted...
Far421 posted...
The situation is utterly absurd in this case, though.


Then pick a different one and answer that, or simply answer the question directly.

It's not difficult. Watch, I'll do it: In the instance that what I think is right differs from what will give my child a happy and successful life in the society we live in, I will teach my child what I think is right.

Now you do it.


Ah, but therein lies the problem. I believe that what is right is dependent on what leads to human well being. I also believe that reason is the way to determine which actions lead to human well being, i.e. what is right. Therefore, if there is a conflict and teaching my child what is right leads to misery for everyone, then it ceases to be right. It goes case by case. I would be against teaching my child to murder even if it made him or her happy, but I would say my child could choose which career to pursue even if a different choice would make very many people very happy. The question, the way you phrased it, is far too black and white.

Hustle, what do you think brainwashing is? It seems to me that it is making someone hold a certain set of beliefs regardless of anything external, such as reason or evidence.
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Pokemon White FC: 4341 2165 1292
#69kozlo100Posted 1/28/2013 2:03:27 PM
Is the problem that you cannot imagine ever holding a belief other than what will make you happy and successful in society? Is that why this is so difficult for you?

Let's try yet another approach. You will be teaching your child to think critically. Are you doing this because you think it is right, or because you think it will make them happy and successful? I understand you think that both things are true, but which is your primary motivation?
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The problem, then, is that if subjective worlds are experienced too differently, there occurs a breakdown in communication. -- Philip K. Dick
#70Hustle KongPosted 1/28/2013 2:05:59 PM
brainwashing[ breyn-wosh-ing, -waw-shing ]
noun
1. a method for systematically changing attitudes or altering beliefs, originated in totalitarian countries, especially through the use of torture, drugs, or psychological-stress techniques.
2. any method of controlled systematic indoctrination, especially one based on repetition or confusion: brainwashing by TV commercials.
3. an instance of subjecting or being subjected to such techniques: efforts to halt the brainwashing of captive audiences.


This is different from parents raising their children the way we have done for millennia, and is needlessly pejorative and bigoted. I'd go so far as to say that someone using such inflammatory language isn't as big a proponent of critical thinking as they pretend, when resorting to those kind of "scarewords".
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Shooting Game never die.
It prays that the clover of luck be always in your mind.