This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

"You can't criticize God" Continued

#341LunarAmbiencePosted 1/28/2013 11:40:31 AM
From: OrangeWizard | #338
From: JonWood007 | #332
God is perfect.

God orders people to kill babies.

Yeah, I think there's a contradiction there.




And there's your problem.


Um. That's not "our" problem. You've kinda embraced a contradiction. If it's your belief that you must embrace a contradiction in believing in your deity, say so now so that we can quit wasting our time with a dullard.
---
The above is both true and false.
#342OrangeWizardPosted 1/28/2013 12:07:17 PM
From: fudrick | #339
Um did you miss the fact that I'm agreeing with and supporting you here?


No.

I'm just preempting that statement with a counter-argument, should anyone ever make it.

From: LunarAmbience | #340
Guys like OW want to make it ambiguous rather than resolving the contradiction


What contradiction? You guys haven't actually brought up a contradiction, and that's because you can't say "solution X was less perfect than solution Y" with any degree of certainty, because you yourselves aren't perfect.

From: LunarAmbience | #341
Um. That's not "our" problem


Yes it is. You think it's a contradiction. I don't. It's your problem, not mine. You're entitled to your own opinion.
---
"Let's make this quick, I'm double-parked." - Two-face
#343JonWood007Posted 1/28/2013 12:10:18 PM
The God of the bible comes with a definition. We've been over this.


Does this god's anger last forever or not? Depending where you read, you get different ideas.

Same goes with everything about God. You're trying to force YOUR definition on me, and one I disagree with for logical reasons.

But what it "Seems like to you" doesn't matter to anyone but you. Your morals could be wrong. Hitler had morals too. Who's to say that his was any worse or better than yours?


So we're supposed to blindly accept some magical sky wizard's morals that you declare as perfect arbitrarily?

And there's your problem.


You guys aren't really grasping this "critical thinking" thing are you?


So thinking is bad now? No wonder you're not convincing me to embrace your religion.
---
Desktop: Phenom II X4 965 | 4 GB DDR3 | GTX 580 | 1 TB HD | W7 | 650W Antec | 1600x900
Laptop: A6 3400m | 4 GB DDR3 | HD 6520g | 500 GB HD | W7 | 1366x768
#344LunarAmbiencePosted 1/28/2013 12:23:41 PM
From: OrangeWizard | #342
What contradiction? You guys haven't actually brought up a contradiction, and that's because you can't say "solution X was less perfect than solution Y" with any degree of certainty, because you yourselves aren't perfect.

We've concluded with 100% certainty that "solution X is less perfect than solution Y." We've concluded with 100% certainty that any kind of deity that needs "solution X" is less perfect than a deity who doesn't need "solution X." We don't need to be perfect to conclude this.

Yes it is. You think it's a contradiction. I don't. It's your problem, not mine. You're entitled to your own opinion.

I KNOW it's a contradiction. WE know it's a contradiction. And this isn't "my opinion" anymore. You think it's reasonable to embrace a contradiction. That's YOUR PROPOSITION. I'm waiting on justification. Carrots and sticks again?
---
The above is both true and false.
#345DrAlbertBanduraPosted 1/28/2013 12:27:48 PM
From: OrangeWizard | #342
You think it's a contradiction. I don't.

That's your opinion. And no one cares what you think. We care about what you can justify. One side of this argument has provided a lot more justification than the other, and I can say it isn't yours.
---
Two fish are in a tank. One turns to the other and says, "You man the guns. I'll drive."
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/9504/bandura.jpg
#346fudrickPosted 1/28/2013 12:29:53 PM
In case anyone wasn't aware, I'm an atheist. I've been playing Jehovah's advocate here.
---
Best FCs:
GH1: Decontrol | GH2: Jordan, Hangar 18 | GH80s: Because It's Midnite | GH3: One, Soothsayer | RB2: I Ain't Superstitious
#347OrangeWizardPosted 1/28/2013 12:33:42 PM
From: JonWood007 | #343
Does this god's anger last forever or not? Depending where you read, you get different ideas.


If you'd like to discuss an actual contradiction about God, then we can discuss it.

However, "I think that X is not something a Y God would do" is not an actual contradiction.

You're trying to force YOUR definition on me, and one I disagree with for logical reasons.


If your definition of the God of the Bible does not include "perfect, omniscient, omnipotent", then we're not talking about the same god.

So we're supposed to blindly accept some magical sky wizard's morals that you declare as perfect arbitrarily?


I'm not about to tell you what you're supposed to do. I'm just saying why "seems like to me" isn't going to fly, and seeing as you never refuted this, and instead, shifted focus onto decrying the alternative, you must agree.

So thinking is bad now?


Having opinions about morality isn't going to cut it if you want to invalidate or belittle a hypothetical objective standard.

From: LunarAmbience | #344
We've concluded with 100% certainty that "solution X is less perfect than solution Y."


No we haven't.

And I don't care if you're "100% certain". It needs to be demonstrable. It needs to be an objective truth. You can be 100% certain, and still be wrong.
---
"Let's make this quick, I'm double-parked." - Two-face
#348OrangeWizardPosted 1/28/2013 12:33:47 PM
I KNOW it's a contradiction.


You can "know" and still be wrong.

You think it's reasonable to embrace a contradiction.


You've said this twice now, and I've just ignored it because it's not true.
---
"Let's make this quick, I'm double-parked." - Two-face
#349OrangeWizardPosted 1/28/2013 12:35:04 PM
From: DrAlbertBandura | #345
That's your opinion. And no one cares what you think. We care about what you can justify.


And I don't care about what anyone can or can't "justify". I care about what anyone can or cannot prove. Demonstrate. Show to be an objective fact.

And in the context of morality or "better decisions", this isn't going to happen.
---
"Let's make this quick, I'm double-parked." - Two-face
#350LunarAmbiencePosted 1/28/2013 12:46:27 PM
From: OrangeWizard | #347
No we haven't.

And I don't care if you're "100% certain". It needs to be demonstrable. It needs to be an objective truth. You can be 100% certain, and still be wrong.

> complains that we haven't met certainty
> says certainty doesn't matter

It HAS been demonstrated. It IS an objective truth. This proposed God is less perfect than another proposed God in both its methods and its motives, hidden or otherwise. You're not stalling this conversation anymore. You're wrong, and you refuse to embrace the fact that you're wrong, and you're stuck in a position of simply affirming your wrong position. It's finished. You're done. You've not committed to any rebuttal except "you can't know for sure," which is something you refuse to establish yourself because it's something you will never be able to establish. I'm saying right now, as sure as 2 + 2 = 4, YOU'RE STATING 2 + 2 = 5. This is demonstrable. This has been measured objectively. Deal with it.
---
The above is both true and false.