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Refuting the Flying Spaghetti Monster when someone uses it like this.

#21Proudclad(Topic Creator)Posted 1/22/2013 10:59:59 PM
I composed of atoms, but not all atoms are part of me. Same thing with FSM and spaghetti.

And yet how do your atoms differ from other atoms? You're still human despite not being made of all atoms. The FSM would be spaghetti, despite not being made of all spaghetti. And we know what spaghetti is and what it's like, and thus the FSM would not exist if that's the sole basis for its existence.
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#22lastheroPosted 1/22/2013 11:08:11 PM

I suppose you're right. And yet perhaps someone who is color-blind might end up not acknowledging that a dandelion is intrinsically white.


It doesn't really matter - they can't see color, so it would be like a deaf person telling you that you're off-key. If they've been blind their whole lives, they likely don't even comprehend what color is.

Which Christian will say "the world is beautiful" as if that's sufficient argumentation?

Plenty. There are Christians that think the vague image of Jesus Christ on a grilled cheese sandwich is a sure proof of God, nothing should surprise you. Check this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGTI1I_A3Dk

And this man was nearly at the inauguration.


If a Christian were to say that, I'd say that their position is weak. The FSM is still not fair game because both the FSM and Jesus as the son of God would have, as their warrant, godliness or omnipotence, however you want to define it. Ultimately the FSM would be a different way to say "a transcendent being"


Seems kind of picky, but whatever. Would you prefer we instead refer to 'Bob, the Transcendent Being'?
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#23lastheroPosted 1/22/2013 11:10:09 PM
Proudclad posted...
I composed of atoms, but not all atoms are part of me. Same thing with FSM and spaghetti.

And yet how do your atoms differ from other atoms? You're still human despite not being made of all atoms. The FSM would be spaghetti, despite not being made of all spaghetti. And we know what spaghetti is and what it's like, and thus the FSM would not exist if that's the sole basis for its existence.


What if it just chooses to be made of Spaghetti?
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#24Proudclad(Topic Creator)Posted 1/22/2013 11:10:27 PM
It doesn't really matter - they can't see color, so it would be like a deaf person telling you that you're off-key. If they've been blind their whole lives, they likely don't even comprehend what color is.

And if you're blind to the world's beauty, you wouldn't comprehend it. Why do people find the world beautiful? I'm curious what you think. This isn't a particularly important point but what is your explanation with some people's fascination with the world and the universe and life?

Plenty. There are Christians that think the vague image of Jesus Christ on a grilled cheese sandwich is a sure proof of God, nothing should surprise you. Check this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGTI1I_A3Dk

And this man was nearly at the inauguration.


X_X Don't wanna watch that, I don't wanna get angry before bed lol

Seems kind of picky, but whatever. Would you prefer we instead refer to 'Bob, the Transcendent Being'?

Whichever way you spin it, you'd still be referring to a transcendent being, and in doing so you'd be failing to posit an actual contradiction to the claim on Jesus.
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#25lastheroPosted 1/22/2013 11:20:19 PM

Whichever way you spin it, you'd still be referring to a transcendent being, and in doing so you'd be failing to posit an actual contradiction to the claim on Jesus.


I don't think the point of the FSM is to contradict Jesus, exactly.
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#26Proudclad(Topic Creator)Posted 1/22/2013 11:32:17 PM
lasthero posted...

Whichever way you spin it, you'd still be referring to a transcendent being, and in doing so you'd be failing to posit an actual contradiction to the claim on Jesus.


I don't think the point of the FSM is to contradict Jesus, exactly.


That wasn't why it was created and yet that is what people have used it for. I'm telling you, the number of geniuses who have tried to refer to the FSM when I've defended the Bible is too high for my taste.
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#27BashyMcFetusPosted 1/22/2013 11:32:54 PM
Proudclad posted...
And yet how do your atoms differ from other atoms? You're still human despite not being made of all atoms. The FSM would be spaghetti, despite not being made of all spaghetti. And we know what spaghetti is and what it's like, and thus the FSM would not exist if that's the sole basis for its existence.

FSM was the first spaghetti. Our spaghetti, while good, doesn't match his perfect noodlyness.
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#28LunarAmbiencePosted 1/22/2013 11:34:10 PM
From: C_Mat | #006
The FSM is a pretty pathetic attempt from atheists to discredit theists. It is not as if Christians make the claim "You cannot disprove God's existence; therefore God exists." They provide external evidence for God that gives explanatory power for the world around us. FSM does none of that.

It's actually more commonly used to discredit "teach the controversy" advocates.

Lately (in this area, anyway), people have become fond of thunderf00t's Ghost That Never Lies to discredit some of the debate tactics of theists.
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#29darklaoPosted 1/22/2013 11:38:40 PM
These things are physically impossible, therefore Jesus is a fictional holy man character? That's a non-sequitur. Read this.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/263-religion/65182894


Nah your topic opener is bunk, too. An atheist would put God in the natural world if (extraordinary) proof was supplied, but so what? They might consider God part of nature, but he'd still be a thing whose existence was now recognized. Your problem in that topic is actually your problem. You put God as necessarily outside and above nature, so you think they're asking for something that doesn't exist.

The plain fact is that if somebody raised the dead in a public way with verifications of death and life, even if another person couldn't use the method (it could not be scientifically verified by reproduction by a disinterested other), it would go a long way toward making the Bible less obviously fictional.

And it's not a non sequitur. If the Bible claims Jesus did those things, and we know those things are physically impossible (because no evidence), then until we learn otherwise it is rational to consider the account a lie, a fiction. Which makes Jesus a character. Likewise if FSM claim, and we know spaghetti isn't like that (because no evidence), the account is, as you say, a caricature. Which, duh. The entire purpose of FSM is parody. It could equally be Christian God-prime which is exactly like your God in all ways except homosexual sex is whatever nobody cares. Or they were actually he-bears instead of she-bears. Or whatever. It doesn't matter.

Not all concepts of God are equally valid or invalid. Some gods are easily disprovable because they can't reconcile logic or science with their context. The FSM is not any kind of attack because it either does not exist or it's omnipotence.

The Christian God is to be assessed with the appropriate methodology rather than just a strict and limited perspective on science.


Yes, I said this. A standoffish deist-style watchmaker God is basically immune to FSM-style attacks precisely because it makes many fewer claims that require evidence we do not have. It has omnipotence, too, but is not your God. If you want your God to stand up to FSM-style attacks you need to either supply the missing evidence for his extraordinary features or argue from superior usefulness or strip-away some or all of the horrible bits.

But just saying FSM can't exist is not going to do it for you, because his particulars don't matter.
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#30lastheroPosted 1/22/2013 11:44:10 PM
Proudclad posted...
lasthero posted...

Whichever way you spin it, you'd still be referring to a transcendent being, and in doing so you'd be failing to posit an actual contradiction to the claim on Jesus.


I don't think the point of the FSM is to contradict Jesus, exactly.


That wasn't why it was created and yet that is what people have used it for. I'm telling you, the number of geniuses who have tried to refer to the FSM when I've defended the Bible is too high for my taste.


And the number of people who've tried to argue God's existence by showing me a pretty flower is too high for my taste, also. Idiots are idiots.
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