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Faith today, faith yesterday

#11JonWood007Posted 1/29/2013 11:38:35 AM
I should also mention this weeks Atheist Experience also went into this a little bit. At one point, they mention that ancient ideas of truth are different than our own.

http://www.atheist-experience.com/archive/

Just watch/listen to the last one. They cover it some time in the first half if I recall correctly.
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#12lastheroPosted 1/29/2013 12:13:02 PM
Fair enough, Gege, I'll have to read the book, sometime. Just going off what alma said about it.
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#13almasbaby(Topic Creator)Posted 1/29/2013 1:02:27 PM
They lived in a prescientific age that was highly superstititious.

There are scholars who say the myths of the ancient world were not meant to be taken literally but were metaphors for a divine source which in itself was unknowable. There could be no way of directly seeing it, of knowing what exactly it looked or sounded like. These myths made it accessible.

It wasn't superstition that gave rise to biblical myth, but an intuitive sense that something divine underlay all of creation. There was no question of this. It wasn't debatable like it is today. To write it off as being a superstition of our less informed ancestors doesn't account for that intuitive sense which persists to this day.

It's been quite sometime since I stopped believing in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, but my sense of a Supreme Being persists in spite of my education in the findings of modern science. All that teaches me is how things work, not what the Prime Cause is. I don't believe it's just a superstitious mind which senses such a thing exists. I believe it's because such a thing actually does exist and we do have a sixth sense which detects it.
#14JonWood007Posted 1/29/2013 1:05:37 PM
Intuition isn't reliable. So my point still stands. Just because people who lived 3000 years ago thought something was real with conviction doesn't mean it is.
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#15fudrickPosted 1/29/2013 3:14:08 PM
almasbaby posted...
It's been quite sometime since I stopped believing in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, but my sense of a Supreme Being persists in spite of my education in the findings of modern science. All that teaches me is how things work, not what the Prime Cause is. I don't believe it's just a superstitious mind which senses such a thing exists. I believe it's because such a thing actually does exist and we do have a sixth sense which detects it.


almasbaby: the guy who thinks he can personally detect a supreme being with his senses but refuses to accept that he can personally detect gravity with his senses

This is killing me, lol
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#16Hustle KongPosted 1/29/2013 3:20:47 PM
Forgot about that, lol.
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#17almasbaby(Topic Creator)Posted 1/29/2013 5:23:57 PM
JonWood007 posted...
Intuition isn't reliable. So my point still stands. Just because people who lived 3000 years ago thought something was real with conviction doesn't mean it is.


Well, maybe not, but you do prove Armstrong's point. Back then there was no question of its reality. Today there is. Maybe back then they were just more attuned than we are now. Maybe our scientific discoveries have made us too haughty.

Who was the scientist who told Napoleon when he was asked where God figured into his equations that he didn't? I forget, and honestly I don't even know it it was Napoleon he was talking to. The point is, science has made us proud of not needing God to explain nature's ways. But how far can we go with that? Can we really get to the very bottom of reality through the scientific method?

I think it's a shame that so many people have abandoned any other way of discerning it. I think we're missing something by it and will never touch reality's essense if we rely too heavily on it.
#18GegengegengegenPosted 1/29/2013 5:46:26 PM
lasthero posted...
Fair enough, Gege, I'll have to read the book, sometime. Just going off what alma said about it.


I would HUGELY recommend it. It's fantastic.
#19ThuggernautzPosted 1/29/2013 5:51:16 PM
almasbaby posted...

Well, maybe not, but you do prove Armstrong's point. Back then there was no question of its reality. Today there is. Maybe back then they were just more attuned than we are now. Maybe our scientific discoveries have made us too haughty.

Who was the scientist who told Napoleon when he was asked where God figured into his equations that he didn't? I forget, and honestly I don't even know it it was Napoleon he was talking to. The point is, science has made us proud of not needing God to explain nature's ways. But how far can we go with that? Can we really get to the very bottom of reality through the scientific method?

I think it's a shame that so many people have abandoned any other way of discerning it. I think we're missing something by it and will never touch reality's essense if we rely too heavily on it.


I think there has never been a more useful method of obtaining knowledge, increasing our survivability and overcoming biological limitations. The fact that I can sit here and type this message to you and you would receive it near instantaneously, even if you were on the other side of the planet, is testament to that.

But please, if you have a framework which is able to provide more explanatory or better predictive power, then let us know. In the meantime, we will continue to realise that 'Goddidit' or 'it's a metaphysical mystery!' are not helpful or pragmatically useful responses.
#20almasbaby(Topic Creator)Posted 1/29/2013 6:41:27 PM
Thuggernautz posted...
almasbaby posted...

Well, maybe not, but you do prove Armstrong's point. Back then there was no question of its reality. Today there is. Maybe back then they were just more attuned than we are now. Maybe our scientific discoveries have made us too haughty.

Who was the scientist who told Napoleon when he was asked where God figured into his equations that he didn't? I forget, and honestly I don't even know it it was Napoleon he was talking to. The point is, science has made us proud of not needing God to explain nature's ways. But how far can we go with that? Can we really get to the very bottom of reality through the scientific method?

I think it's a shame that so many people have abandoned any other way of discerning it. I think we're missing something by it and will never touch reality's essense if we rely too heavily on it.


I think there has never been a more useful method of obtaining knowledge, increasing our survivability and overcoming biological limitations. The fact that I can sit here and type this message to you and you would receive it near instantaneously, even if you were on the other side of the planet, is testament to that.

But please, if you have a framework which is able to provide more explanatory or better predictive power, then let us know. In the meantime, we will continue to realise that 'Goddidit' or 'it's a metaphysical mystery!' are not helpful or pragmatically useful responses.


I'm not arguing with this. But have we got to the source of it? I mean the Prime Source, from whence it all came? For that I say "Goddidit". Don't you have a need to connect with where you came from? I feel that need. More importantly I feel a need to know that source is loving, wise, merciful and compassionate.

Just being a monkey's grandson doesn't really cut it for me. I mean, it's cool that our humble origins might have been space dust from a passing comet, but that doesn't satisfy a much more basic and primordial need to connect with God. That's something built-in, an integral part of me. What a shame if it's all for naught.

Meanwhile, you keep looking for better ways to surf the net and overcoming limitations if that's what makes your motor rum. It doesn't do much for me.