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God is a logical necessity

#11ScottSweatshirt(Topic Creator)Posted 1/29/2013 1:41:46 PM
i should start proof reading my post
#12WelshGamer82Posted 1/29/2013 1:42:23 PM
Proof read the Wikipedia article I posted while you're at it.
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#13KNessJMPosted 1/29/2013 1:47:23 PM
OP, a good understanding of biology, physics, and natural history would do you a lot of good.

Hell, you could even settle for looking up the innumerable existing rebuttals to your argument. Other posters have already given the gist of it, and the response from many others should tell you that we've been down this road many times on this board before, hence people's reluctance to re-hash old arguments. The argument isn't a "sure-fire winner", it's been refuted and has clearly failed to convince anyone here.

Yet my suspicion is that you'll come away from this having learned nothing and still claim victory. I hope you prove me wrong.
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#14fudrickPosted 1/29/2013 1:53:39 PM
Is the existence of a "creator" being evidence of design?
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#15ElderMisanthropyPosted 1/29/2013 1:57:34 PM
ScottSweatshirt posted...

Oh look its this same regurgitated argument again
Not only is that but the whole argument of evolution is irrelevant to the topic


It's not irrelevant when it's essentially the answer to a lot of questions you might have.

If you want to ignore that fact the fact that the universe was designed then go ahead and keep feeding on your own ignorance. Thats not my problem.


I wouldn't throw around words like "ignorance" when the very first sentence in the topic begins "There really shouldnt be any reason for one to demand proof of God ..."

The organs cushioned inside of your body where designed to commit to a set of different functions to ensure proper bodily function which keep you alive.


I'd like to poll this board to find out how many people have had their wisdom teeth taken out, or had appendicitis. The human body is indeed a remarkable specimen, but if this is the best a divine being can muster, it's certainly nothing to brag about.

But I know what you are going to say. That was an accident along with everything else in the world, Ha, I understand you have to believe that to continue supporting what you do but it sadly doesnt change the reality of the matter :(


The only arguments you've provided have been rehashed Answers in Genesis garbage that have been debunked and rebuked countless times. If you're going to be high and mighty about the value of your position, you've still got all your work ahead of you.
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#16chareyPosted 1/29/2013 1:59:55 PM
ScottSweatshirt posted...
charey posted...
Oh look it's this argument again.

Before we need to find a designer you need to prove that the universe was designed, yes the human brain IS too complex to have ended up like is is from chance but evolution isn't chance and the first brains where nowhere near the same level as ours.

Evolution is a combination of random mutations and natural selection. Being smarter gives a creature a better chance at survival so any mutations that make a creature smarter will give the creature a better chance of passing on it's genes and the mutations to the next generation and conversely mutations the made a creature dumber will decrease the chance that the stupid gene will be passed on. This happened enough that humans gained extremely complex brains.

Before you try to debunk a theory at least try to have a basic understanding of what the theory is.


Oh look its this same regurgitated argument again
Not only is that but the whole argument of evolution is irrelevant to the topic

If you want to ignore that fact the fact that the universe was designed then go ahead and keep feeding on your own ignorance. Thats not my problem.
The organs cushioned inside of your body where designed to commit to a set of different functions to ensure proper bodily function which keep you alive.

But I know what you are going to say. That was an accident along with everything else in the world, Ha, I understand you have to believe that to continue supporting what you do but it sadly doesnt change the reality of the matter :(

You do realize that the point I made about how the brain was formed works against you new argument with only changing a few words right?
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#17JonWood007Posted 1/29/2013 2:09:23 PM(edited)
Trumped by evidence of simple life becoming complex, of all matter and energy coming from a single point, and not knowing what caused the point. COULD it be God? Maybe, but it could also not be intelligently created.

Also, just doing a quick google search, some sources that may interest you.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/design.html

http://www.princeton.edu/~grosen/puc/phi203/design.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleological_argument

A general canned argument deserved a general canned response.
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#18ScottSweatshirt(Topic Creator)Posted 1/29/2013 2:11:18 PM
ElderMisantrophy posted...



The Watchmaker argument is a very, very bad argument, and if this is truly the basis for your position that "God is a logical necessity," you've got a tremendous amount of reading and researching to do. Yes, we know that stone huts and SOS alerts are designed, and therefore require a designer. We don't know that brains, grains of sand, stones, tree bark, or leaves were designed.



Its not that you dont know, it simply just that you dont acknowledge something that undermines your complete belief system. If this argument didnt have implications involving God, you would have no problem admitting something so obvious
Youre blinded by ignorance.

I mentioned the bodily organs in my last post which are more akin to the internal mechanisms in a machine to ensure its proper operations

The body is nothing without its organs the same way a machine is nothing without its internal mechanical support.


According to you and people like you though, evrything happened by chance. I know you dont like it being referred to that way but thats basically what you believe in a nutshell. So riddle me this.

If it did happen by purely naturalistic circumstances then is it possible that the first living beings inherited these essential components all at once as macro evolution is not a contiguous process? That must have been the case right for a person wouldnt be able to live with just a portion of an organ, let lone a single organ at a time. Rationalize that for me please.

I have no problem believing that most things happened by accident, or random chance. Given the 13 billion years preceding human life, I think it's a fair assumption that we are not the final goal of the Universe; we're simply one part in a large chain of natural events.


Of course you have no problem accepting such utter non sense
I mean why else would you be a atheist? For the retirement benefits?
The statement kinda went without saying
#19Hustle KongPosted 1/29/2013 2:15:36 PM
I shouldn't come into topics proclaiming something so bold and expecting anything new or novel.
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#20ElderMisanthropyPosted 1/29/2013 2:16:26 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]