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If free will is an illusion

#1DarkContractorPosted 1/29/2013 6:00:35 PM
then why did natural selection necessitate all of us have this illusion?
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www.youtube.com/user/MisterPillow An apologetics channel on the Christian faith (And I'm better looking than Proudclad)
#2TheRealJiraiyaPosted 1/29/2013 6:08:51 PM
I dont understand why, if it is indeed "an illusion", it would not be the default for a mind as complex as ours.
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#3ThuggernautzPosted 1/29/2013 6:13:04 PM
Positive reinforcement for making choices with good outcomes. There are many potential choices in a set, constrained within the individual and from the environment. Evolutionarily, survival reinforcing decisions made that result in good outcomes. Machine learning 101. ;)
#4Hustle KongPosted 1/29/2013 6:28:38 PM
Our brains also "see" faces where there are none. Something being false does not automatically mean it is useless.
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Shooting Game never die.
It prays that the clover of luck be always in your mind.
#5JonWood007Posted 1/29/2013 7:05:27 PM
Because our brains are wired for survival, not for understanding everything about the universe? A lot of facts about the universe are counterintuitive. Still, knowing them doesn't help us survive, so...
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#6DarkContractor(Topic Creator)Posted 1/29/2013 7:34:29 PM
From: JonWood007 | #005
Because our brains are wired for survival, not for understanding everything about the universe? A lot of facts about the universe are counterintuitive. Still, knowing them doesn't help us survive, so...


all this does is not disprove the illusion. it doesn't necessitate it all.From: Thuggernautz | #003
Positive reinforcement for making choices with good outcomes. There are many potential choices in a set, constrained within the individual and from the environment. Evolutionarily, survival reinforcing decisions made that result in good outcomes. Machine learning 101. ;)



if its supposed to be an influence on us making choices, then that is by definition free will. if we're not making choices (aka dont have free will) then its not influencing anything.
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www.youtube.com/user/MisterPillow An apologetics channel on the Christian faith (And I'm better looking than Proudclad)
#7DarkContractor(Topic Creator)Posted 1/29/2013 7:35:51 PM
btw Jon haven't been ignoring you in the cant criticize God topic. just been busy. but if me making this topic is an indicator, Ill respond probably within the next couple days.
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www.youtube.com/user/MisterPillow An apologetics channel on the Christian faith (And I'm better looking than Proudclad)
#8DarkContractor(Topic Creator)Posted 1/29/2013 7:40:14 PM
From: Hustle Kong | #004
Our brains also "see" faces where there are none. Something being false does not automatically mean it is useless.


this is just because our brains are not done evolving. regardless, I never said that something being false did make it useless. (tho ftr, your example doesn't really contradict that notion. the issue is more complex than the brain itself. I would argue the false perceptions are useless, but the correct perceptions are.). Im just saying, regardless of its validity, that the illusion of free will just doesn't seem to have any origin. no evolutionary need at all.
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www.youtube.com/user/MisterPillow An apologetics channel on the Christian faith (And I'm better looking than Proudclad)
#9JonWood007Posted 1/29/2013 7:45:06 PM
DarkContractor posted...
From: JonWood007 | #005
Because our brains are wired for survival, not for understanding everything about the universe? A lot of facts about the universe are counterintuitive. Still, knowing them doesn't help us survive, so...


all this does is not disprove the illusion. it doesn't necessitate it all.From: Thuggernautz | #003
Positive reinforcement for making choices with good outcomes. There are many potential choices in a set, constrained within the individual and from the environment. Evolutionarily, survival reinforcing decisions made that result in good outcomes. Machine learning 101. ;)



if its supposed to be an influence on us making choices, then that is by definition free will. if we're not making choices (aka dont have free will) then its not influencing anything.


The concept of free will being an illusion is the fact that while we may appear to make choices, such choices are in a sense decided for us. Our behavior is influenced by the environment, and our choices are not really free. Some choices are more favorable for us than others, and therefore it's pretty much decided we will choose option A over option B. Now, I don't know if free will exists at all, but it could be theorized that ALL decisions are like this, our environment, upbringing, physical chemistry leading to emotions, everything leads us to choose one alternative over another, that being said, free will isn't really "free". While we theoretically could choose another alternative, we won't because it is seen as less desirable for whatever reason (and sometimes there is even no conscious reason).

I don't know if we have free will or not at all. At the very least, our choices are heavily colored by external circumstances, and at most, our "choices" are totally influenced by these factors.

It appears to us that we're making a choice, but what really influences you do act a certain way? Think about it. Why do you act the way you act? Why choose one choice over another? While you could have made other choices, did you have any reason at the time to do so? I bet you had a better reason for choosing the choice you chose, or there were reasons against doing the other options.
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#10Hustle KongPosted 1/29/2013 7:46:04 PM
this is just because our brains are not done evolving.


What. There IS no "done evolving".
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Shooting Game never die.
It prays that the clover of luck be always in your mind.