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Question about Christianity \ Jesus and laws created by man.

#11EDIFlCATIONPosted 1/31/2013 10:52:30 AM
FlashOfLight posted...
EDlFlCATlON posted...
Everyone who is elected? Even Hitler as example?


God gives leaders according to the desires and wishes of the people ->


So how are you meant to know what leaders to follow and which ones to disobey?
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Izual - Common Sense Applies.
#12C_MatPosted 1/31/2013 12:38:46 PM
^^See my first post. Obey those in authority over you, but not when their directives conflict with God's Word.
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#13EDlFlCATIONPosted 1/31/2013 2:19:34 PM
C_Mat posted...
^^See my first post. Obey those in authority over you, but not when their directives conflict with God's Word.


I imagine that that would sometimes be an incredibly grey area.
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Izual - Common Sense Applies.
#14FlashOfLightPosted 2/1/2013 4:18:27 AM
EDIFlCATION posted...

So how are you meant to know what leaders to follow and which ones to disobey?


What C_Mat said, however, if it is considered a grey area, I'll expand on it a little bit.

Usually all governments, unless they are extremely primitive, have a system of justice under judges, even communist regimes do, God recommends being in touch/aware of the current laws one is living under as a defense, so that should a false accusation arrive under the government, or being presented in a trial under an unjust judge, the system would have to recognize and concede to its own laws, because ultimately, God never fully allows any government to be wholly without justice.

Let me show the Biblical example, with a preface first; Paul the Apostle was being conspired against by his own people, and was in danger of scourging as a result of the false accusations against him, but Paul being wise, appealed to the Romans' own law -

Acts 22:24-29

"The chief captain commanded him to be brought into the castle, and bade that he should be examined by scourging; that he might know wherefore they cried so against him.

And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said unto the centurion that stood by, Is it lawful for you to scourge a man that is a Roman, and uncondemned?

When the centurion heard that, he went and told the chief captain, saying, Take heed what thou doest: for this man is a Roman.

Then the chief captain came, and said unto him, Tell me, art thou a Roman? He said, Yea.

And the chief captain answered, With a great sum obtained I this freedom. And Paul said, But I was free born.

Then straightway they departed from him which should have examined him: and the chief captain also was afraid, after he knew that he was a Roman, and because he had bound him."

Daniel, also, after being in danger of being executed under King Nebuchadnezzar, due to the failure of his wise men to interpret his dream, also acted with knowledge according to the laws and customs of the time

Daniel 2:13-16

"And the decree went forth that the wise men should be slain; and they sought Daniel and his fellows to be slain. Then Daniel answered with counsel and wisdom to Arioch the captain of the king's guard, which was gone forth to slay the wise men of Babylon:

He answered and said to Arioch the king's captain, Why is the decree so hasty from the king? Then Arioch made the thing known to Daniel.
Then Daniel went in, and desired of the king that he would give him time, and that he would shew the king the interpretation."

Joseph, as well, after being thrown into prison under the Egyptians, also used his knowledge of their customs to eventually be set free, due to lack of space, it is covered in
Genesis 40 and 41, but here is the principal part of the matter we're touching on ->

"But think on me when it shall be well with thee, and shew kindness, I pray thee, unto me, and make mention of me unto Pharaoh, and bring me out of this house:
For indeed I was stolen away out of the land of the Hebrews: and here also have I done nothing that they should put me into the dungeon."

Joseph's prison mate -
"And there was there with us a young man, an Hebrew, servant to the captain of the guard; ...

"Then Pharaoh sent and called Joseph, and they brought him hastily out of the dungeon: and he shaved himself, and changed his raiment, and came in unto Pharaoh."

Continuing...
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And out of this crust, put out your thrust, do what you must, try not to rust, as you turn to dust.
#15FlashOfLightPosted 2/1/2013 4:52:09 AM
Most governments, and those officers set under it, who have power and authority, usually expect and count on the people to be ignorant of their laws and rights, and with those who are not aware of those laws, they can easily be trampled on and have a miserable time under their regime, but being informed of the laws properly, and not being ignorant of them, can and will serve as a defense against corruption or any other unfavourable things that will come up, and should one still go to prison, they can still keep fighting by the system's own laws to eventually have justice in their favour, as it was with Joseph.

Corrupt leaders are sometimes inevitable, Ecc. 5:8 ->

"If thou seest the oppression of the poor, and violent perverting of judgment and justice in a province, marvel not at the matter: for he that is higher than the highest regardeth; and there be higher than they."

But God instructs his people to be well-iformed, so that they can not only come to succour others under such crimes, but have an ability to save themselves out of such injustices should they come on them as well ->

Jer 22:15-16

"Shalt thou reign, because thou closest thyself in cedar? did not thy father eat and drink, and do judgment and justice, and then it was well with him?
He judged the cause of the poor and needy; then it was well with him: was not this to know me? saith the LORD."

Jer 5:1

"Run ye to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, and see now, and know, and seek in the broad places thereof, if ye can find a man, if there be any that executeth judgment, that seeketh the truth; and I will pardon it."

Zech 8:16

"These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:
And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith the LORD."

Though the great example of Hitler is well known to history, and though he executed savageries upon people that were unspeakable, and his memory is bitter to those who lived under him, yet his regime did not last, it strived to last for a thousand years, but he was not Chancellor of Germany for more than 13 years.

Like Hitler, who thought to have a perpetual regime, the Babylonian kings also thought to reign without end, but God made it known to them that they would not get so far ->

Daniel 5:26-31

"This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it.
TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.

Then commanded Belshazzar, and they clothed Daniel with scarlet, and put a chain of gold about his neck, and made a proclamation concerning him, that he should be the third ruler in the kingdom.

In that night was Belshazzar the king of the Chaldeans slain.
And Darius the Median took the kingdom, being about threescore and two years old."
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And out of this crust, put out your thrust, do what you must, try not to rust, as you turn to dust.