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From: I-NE-IV | #010
So ... appeal to consequences, then? Just because something is desirable doesn't mean it is true.
So it makes you happy? then why are you preaching to us? I think we can safely say that if God is in control of our lives we'd be happier, but that doesn't automatically make him valid. this is an appeal to emotion. You haven't received more truth, you gotta prove that statement. You've only received more theory.
No, I picked a couple of numbers because they helped my solve other equations, even though I couldn't prove the values.
I will provide you a very possible scenario and how Biblical morality can pretty much **** stuff up 9 times out of 10. I already did with the whole sex before marriage thing, which you conveniently ignored. this is course excluding basic staples like no killing, no stealing.
I don't care. That kind of reasoning never got me anywhere.
you haven't got anywhere anyways. You just have faith.
I sympathize with you somewhat on your thoughts about morality. I agree that self-invented morality leaves something to be desired, but at the same time, this applies to religious morality, which is really the self-invented morality of the people who made religion. Even if I returned to religion, I would still be plagued by doubts about morality and the meaning of life.
I don't sympathize much with the part where you wanted to persuade your family into accepting your views. They strongly believe in their views and they're probably not causing significant harm with their religion, so it's obvious that converting them is both tedious and unrewarding even if you succeed. The part where your relationships suffered was really more your fault than the fault of your atheistic views. Sorry if that sounded harsh.
If you want to stick with your current religion, then go for it. Still, it would be nice if you found a belief system that satisfied you scientifically and socially.
I'm a Christian Atheist. theres a few things I deviate on the usual interpretation of Christian morality (the occasional swear word, I try not to do it in the presence of people who dont like profanity. I really like the whole "dont do what others consider sin around them" it talks about in romans. I'll occasionally have a beer to the point I get buzzed, but I don't wanna get drunk. I don't wanna really have sex unless it's with someone that I think I'll spend the the rest of my life with. but we don't have to be officially married or anything. And I can still study physics, science, EVIDENCE, for the cause of the universe. the Bible is not a package deal. One needs not apply Genesis to reality to adopt the Bible's morality.
Also, tc do you believe you feel the Holy Spirit? just wondering.
Are you a Christian, TC? If so, how does that interact with your lack of belief that god is omnipotent?
Also, what does it mean for a life to "have truth"?
Edit: I would add that human-based morality can be a tiring thing to practice because it puts all the burden and responsibility on human shoulders. It's easy to defer to a god and cleanse your hands of much of the need to think about your moral decisions. It also traps you beneath belief in god, because if that belief should vanish, you could be brought down beneath the weight of the consequences of your actions.
Pokemon White FC: 4341 2165 1292
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
I just realized I assumed he was Christian. I humbly apologize.
But without religion it would be hard to justify believing that sex should wait until marriage--but that ethic works. It's not easily reasoned out, but it has emerged from thousands of years of human society.
Well there's your problem. You're trying to justify things which have no justification. There is no reason someone should wait until marriage for sex besides a priori religious beliefs. Were you also trying to justify why one should honor the Sabbath without a religious belief that it should be honored?
The food that stands on his [Odin's] table he gives to two wolves of his called Geri and Freki. He himself needs no food; wine is for him both drink and meat.
Atheist, Christian or whatever, you sound like a pretty irredeemably terrible person TC, who uses his beliefs, or lack thereof, as an excuse to pretend you are better than others.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata.
I appreciate your honesty, TC! When I've imagined the fickle nature of morality on atheism's point of view, it kinda scares me. I think that in itself is the strongest argument against atheism.
@TC, my interpretation of your story:
You were exposed to things which made you doubt your faith. This doubt led to dismissal of your faith, but you were uncomfortable in your dismissal (and understandably so, since it was a huge part of your life until then), so you tried to bring your family and friends to doubt and dismiss their faith too, so you could justify your own deconversion through social support, unity in thought, etc.
In hindsight, you feel like your attempts to deconvert them were hostile (and unkind), but I think this hostility built over time from their reluctance to accept your doubts as their own or to even consider your doubts as reasonable. And when you failed to deconvert your family and friends, you felt like you also failed to justify your own doubts, and this lack of satisfaction (coupled probably with a sense of solitude) made you return to where you are comfortable: in religion, in faith, and with like-minded individuals.
You didn't need God to give your life beauty and meaning, you needed validation. And atheism wasn't providing that for you.