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I don't understand Francis Collin's conversion.

#1UnfairRepresentPosted 2/4/2013 9:23:15 AM
He saw all kinds of horrors. disease, agony, pain and witnessed parasites and disasters that would make make the most jaded misanthrope cringe.

Then he climbed some mountains, thought they were pretty and so decided God exists, planned everything and it all follows his design,

But...wha? not only is that stupid in of it self, you've just stated that God caused and designed all that disease, death and agony. Like those worms that infect an eye and devour it from the inside. And those babies/mothers who died in childbirth.

Surely if this relevation came to you, and you truly believed it, your reaction would not be "God is great, better be a Christian and worship him." (and do note "him" because that's important) it'd be "God is a petty, weird, horrific and cruel being that I hate."

In other words, if the beauty of some mountains made me convinced God existed, I wouldn't become a Christian I'd become an immense anti-theist on every level.
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^ Hey now that's completely unfair.
http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg
#2JonWood007Posted 2/4/2013 9:36:23 AM
Yeah, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. To get a fair look at the world, you need to look both at the good and the bad. And the best explanation to me is crap happens.
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#3Moorish_IdolPosted 2/4/2013 11:02:47 AM
With the amount of knowledge he has contributed to science, I think his religious beliefs are pretty irrelevant at this point.
#4kozlo100Posted 2/4/2013 11:21:34 AM
Somehow I think that your failure to understand his choices might have something to do with the degree to which you've simplified his position.
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The problem, then, is that if subjective worlds are experienced too differently, there occurs a breakdown in communication. -- Philip K. Dick
#5DeadPresidents2Posted 2/4/2013 1:44:30 PM
Collins is the genome guy, right?

I believe I read somewhere (may even have been Wikipedia) that his conversion towards theism came from his work with the terminally ill, and probably revolved more around their attitudes than their afflictions.

I believe that he stays rooted in his beliefs, however, because of his field of study. DNA is a very mystifying thing; I think that noted atheist Antony Flew also changed views because of it, though he converted to the more impartial deism.
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#6UnfairRepresent(Topic Creator)Posted 2/4/2013 5:01:25 PM
kozlo100 posted...
Somehow I think that your failure to understand his choices might have something to do with the degree to which you've simplified his position.


Somehow I think you avoid actually saying anything of substance because you literally can't.

If you think I've simplified anything then actually say what the unsimplified version else. Or get out the topic. Your choice.

DeadPresidents2 posted...
Collins is the genome guy, right?

I believe I read somewhere (may even have been Wikipedia) that his conversion towards theism came from his work with the terminally ill, and probably revolved more around their attitudes than their afflictions.

I believe that he stays rooted in his beliefs, however, because of his field of study. DNA is a very mystifying thing; I think that noted atheist Antony Flew also changed views because of it, though he converted to the more impartial deism.


No when he was working with the terminally ill he was an atheist; It wasn't until he saw some pretty mountains that he converted.
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^ Hey now that's completely unfair.
http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg
#7kozlo100Posted 2/4/2013 5:04:15 PM
UnfairRepresent posted...
If you think I've simplified anything then actually say what the unsimplified version else. Or get out the topic. Your choice.


Hey, I don't even know who this guy is. All I'm saying is that nobody's religious position is "I saw some pretty things so God exists."

If I found myself thinking such a thing and was confused about it, I'd probably try looking deeper. You don't want to put in the effort to understand, it's no skin off my back.
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The problem, then, is that if subjective worlds are experienced too differently, there occurs a breakdown in communication. -- Philip K. Dick
#8UnfairRepresent(Topic Creator)Posted 2/4/2013 5:46:56 PM
kozlo100 posted...
UnfairRepresent posted...
If you think I've simplified anything then actually say what the unsimplified version else. Or get out the topic. Your choice.


Hey, I don't even know who this guy is..


Then don't say I simplified anything hypocrite.
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^ Hey now that's completely unfair.
http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg
#9kozlo100Posted 2/4/2013 5:49:10 PM(edited)
Except that you did. I don't have to know the guy to know that.

Are your really curious about his position though, or are you just spoiling for a fight?

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The problem, then, is that if subjective worlds are experienced too differently, there occurs a breakdown in communication. -- Philip K. Dick
#10UnfairRepresent(Topic Creator)Posted 2/4/2013 5:52:02 PM
You know that I am simplifying something even though you know nothing about the subject and I do?

How arrogant, calling me a liar and simultaneously claiming you know better from ignorance.

No I was "spoiling" for a discussion. And I can't have that with someone who knows absolutely nothing but yet calls me a liar. So stop it.


If you think I'm over-simplifying it then look him up and find out for yourself. I'll wait.
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^ Hey now that's completely unfair.
http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg