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I don't understand Francis Collin's conversion.

#21Faust_8Posted 2/4/2013 11:44:01 PM
UnfairRepresent posted...
Faust_8 posted...
*Reads further down the topic*

Wait, this guy is really accusing kozlo of lacking substance?

He must be really new to this board. >_>


I "think" it's my first time. I might have popped here once or twice before.

But I don't care who you are, if you come into a topic, call someone a liar while claiming you no nothing of the subject and adding nothing to the topic then you're arrogant, insulting them and wasting time.


I don't think you could have misunderstood him worse than you just did.

Try reading everything again without being on a hair-trigger.
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You are the universe
Expressing itself as a human, for a little while
#22AdmiralBisonPosted 2/5/2013 12:56:20 AM
I think it's a form of denial.

Unable to face the real world for both its good and its bad, and fantasizing that a god will look after everything.
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If delusions and Illusions are an en-escapable part of our entire lives, why not just pick a positive one?
#23Chaos ScadePosted 2/5/2013 2:47:01 AM
kozlo100 posted...
Except that you did. I don't have to know the guy to know that.


This is what he's referring to:

I turned the corner and saw in front of me this frozen waterfall, a couple of hundred feet high. Actually, a waterfall that had three parts to it also the symbolic three in one. At that moment, I felt my resistance leave me. And it was a great sense of relief. The next morning, in the dewy grass in the shadow of the Cascades, I fell on my knees and accepted this truth that God is God, that Christ is his son and that I am giving my life to that belief.

Which is actually referring to the culmination of his intellectual journey ending in an existential encounter with beauty, rather than "he saw some mountains and decided that God was real".
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#24DeadPresidents2Posted 2/5/2013 4:45:00 AM

That said, with a man as prestigious and genius as Collins, I highly doubt he converted on a whim. It would be totally against his character to not consider something thoroughly.


This. That being said, I want to stress something that I thing is sometimes eschewed on this board. It's okay to have a different religious view than a reputable, intelligent individual . It doesn't make them right, it doesn't make you wrong, and it doesn't make either of you stupid. People develop their views in different ways, with different inspirations and different philosophies. I don't think there's a single, main religious ideology that you could pick that doesn't have at least ONE genius representing it. Da Vinci, Einstein, and Planck were all deist, probably because they approached the world with a sense of humility, and were too tactful to define their particular allegiance. Bohr, Hawking, and Sagan are all more skeptical, and are not afraid of their skepticism, and prefer evidence over all; they are atheists. And theists like Collins, Dyson, or even Newton could have been influenced by anything from the time in which they lived, to the personal experiences of their field.

And that's okay. If there's one consistent aspect of intelligence, its that it has never been condensed to a single race, gender, background, or even religious belief.
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Me to this random girl : Mygirlfriendsayswhat? Random girl: What?
Me: Zing!
#25UnfairRepresent(Topic Creator)Posted 2/5/2013 7:47:33 AM
kozlo100 posted...
Given that you have perceived me as calling you a liar when I have not,


Yes you did. And you're still lying. And you're still insulting me and wasting my time. Stop it.

AdmiralBison posted...
I think it's a form of denial.

Unable to face the real world for both its good and its bad, and fantasizing that a god will look after everything.


I'm leaning that way as well. It sounds like he was trying to use God to avoid depression. And there are better ways.

DeadPresidents2 posted...

That said, with a man as prestigious and genius as Collins, I highly doubt he converted on a whim. It would be totally against his character to not consider something thoroughly.


This. That being said, I want to stress something that I thing is sometimes eschewed on this board. It's okay to have a different religious view than a reputable, intelligent individual . It doesn't make them right, it doesn't make you wrong, and it doesn't make either of you stupid. People develop their views in different ways, with different inspirations and different philosophies. I don't think there's a single, main religious ideology that you could pick that doesn't have at least ONE genius representing it. Da Vinci, Einstein, and Planck were all deist, probably because they approached the world with a sense of humility, and were too tactful to define their particular allegiance. Bohr, Hawking, and Sagan are all more skeptical, and are not afraid of their skepticism, and prefer evidence over all; they are atheists. And theists like Collins, Dyson, or even Newton could have been influenced by anything from the time in which they lived, to the personal experiences of their field.

And that's okay. If there's one consistent aspect of intelligence, its that it has never been condensed to a single race, gender, background, or even religious belief.


This is not only important but the very point of the topic. Dismissing "There's more too it because Collins is Smart." is silly, the reason it's perplexing is that Collins was an intelligent man and converted so stupidly and contradictorily. The very point is that there wasn't more to it.
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^ Hey now that's completely unfair.
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#26kozlo100Posted 2/5/2013 10:25:55 AM
UnfairRepresent posted...
Yes you did. And you're still lying. And you're still insulting me and wasting my time. Stop it.


Quote it.
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The problem, then, is that if subjective worlds are experienced too differently, there occurs a breakdown in communication. -- Philip K. Dick
#27Moorish_IdolPosted 2/5/2013 12:44:05 PM
This is not only important but the very point of the topic. Dismissing "There's more too it because Collins is Smart." is silly, the reason it's perplexing is that Collins was an intelligent man and converted so stupidly and contradictorily. The very point is that there wasn't more to it.

There you go again, ignoring what we've been saying.

I don't know why you think you know everything about his conversion. Did he tell you personally? Unless you know the man and he confirmed your simple interpretation of what you heard from some random website, I think it should be painfully obvious that you don't have the whole story.

But maybe you can enlighten us: what is your source that proves it was a simple, stupid conversion? I'm surprised you've gone this long without showing us.
#28UnfairRepresent(Topic Creator)Posted 2/5/2013 5:21:07 PM
Moorish_Idol posted...
This is not only important but the very point of the topic. Dismissing "There's more too it because Collins is Smart." is silly, the reason it's perplexing is that Collins was an intelligent man and converted so stupidly and contradictorily. The very point is that there wasn't more to it.

There you go again, ignoring what we've been saying.

I don't know why you think you know everything about his conversion. Did he tell you personally?


Yes. I've heard him speak about it. It was seeing the beauty mountains that made him convert because God must have designed them.

Unlike the people calling me a liar and insulting me who have literally never heard of him.
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^ Hey now that's completely unfair.
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#29kozlo100Posted 2/5/2013 5:27:01 PM
liar

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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The problem, then, is that if subjective worlds are experienced too differently, there occurs a breakdown in communication. -- Philip K. Dick
#30Moorish_IdolPosted 2/5/2013 8:47:31 PM
UnfairRepresent posted...
Moorish_Idol posted...
This is not only important but the very point of the topic. Dismissing "There's more too it because Collins is Smart." is silly, the reason it's perplexing is that Collins was an intelligent man and converted so stupidly and contradictorily. The very point is that there wasn't more to it.

There you go again, ignoring what we've been saying.

I don't know why you think you know everything about his conversion. Did he tell you personally?


Yes. I've heard him speak about it. It was seeing the beauty mountains that made him convert because God must have designed them.

Unlike the people calling me a liar and insulting me who have literally never heard of him.


Did he say that unequivocally the only factor contributing to his conversion was the mountain scenery? Or did he simply say that it was when he saw the mountains that he converted?

There's a big difference.