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Looking at common apologetics about Hell.

#11DarkContractor(Topic Creator)Posted 2/4/2013 6:06:57 PM(edited)
From: Silviiro | #009
Who are we to determine what is the nature of God and the nature of existence itself? If God is as he is described in the Bible then he's probably using the best option available to him. If God does not exist or does not exist as described in the Bible then there is no use debating a Biblical Hell in such a context.

Of course there is always the question of "is Hell a place or a state? Can Hell be on Earth?" To me it is still a split issue. I may currently be in Hell, I don't know.


*admits he doesn't the nature of God and the nature of existence*
*proceeds to go ahead and fill in that unknowable answer with things like perfection and love*

anyways, I stand by my word, b.o.p. discussion is over gg no re

I never understood this apology, even when I was a Christian. While theologically sound, does a Christian really think the "priori good/perfect" defense is going to make an atheist drop any of his criticisms? I maintain that when the only defense you can muster is that, it really pushes me further away from adopting your religion. It's not going to help an atheist past any theological morality problems, and your goal is to disciple us, not loosely win a debate against us. I mean the rationalizations are the exact same as those used to justify Stalin's whole spill.

really, I can't help but think of Christians as desperate and looking for some sort of justification to keep their infalsifible claim of God's morality going.


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#12LastManStandingPosted 2/4/2013 6:05:30 PM
I don't get the lingo, straw-man this and that.
I am coming with pure heart, and good will, that is what I bring.
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#13Julian_CaesarPosted 2/4/2013 6:08:56 PM
From: DarkContractor | #011
anyways, I stand by my word, b.o.p. discussion is over gg no re


What does b.o.p. mean? Also, I find it hilarious that you reject the possibility of God being a priori good while at the same time suggesting that we use Scripture to provide an explanation for Hell. You know, the document that says God is Supreme Creator and incapable of being in the presence of sin?

But to answer you from what I believe, the reason Hell exists is because we have free will. God wants us to be with Him forever, but He wants us to choose it out of Love. Not experience it by compulsion. So if you really have a beef with Hell, you have a beef with God giving us free will. At that point, all I can say is to ask God Himself at your most convenient opportunity why He wanted us to have free will.
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#14DarkContractor(Topic Creator)Posted 2/4/2013 6:10:55 PM
From: LastManStanding | #012
I don't get the lingo, straw-man this and that.
I am coming with pure heart, and good will, that is what I bring.


I just defined it for you, my good sir.

again, a strawman is taking something your opponent did not say, and debating what you took instead of what your opponent actually said.

it'd be a lot easier if you knew the lingo, and understood how logic works in a debate. theres a reason why we pretty much unanimously pounce on your posts the way we do while actually upholding discussion with other Christians on this board.
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An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
#15Lord_IchmaelPosted 2/4/2013 6:12:12 PM
LastManStanding posted...
I don't get the lingo, straw-man this and that.
I am coming with pure heart, and good will, that is what I bring.


But you are a straw man.
#16SilviiroPosted 2/4/2013 6:13:55 PM
*admits he doesn't the nature of God and the nature of existence*
*proceeds to go ahead and fill in that unknowable answer with things like perfection and love*


I did not fill in anything, I only gave the possibilities. It's a simple binary system. Either Hell, in whatever form it may exist, is necessary or God as described in the Bible does not exist.
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"I have seen everything that is done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind." -- Ecclesiastes 1:14
#17SilviiroPosted 2/4/2013 6:18:05 PM(edited)
Have you ever seen Blast From the Past? We are Brendan Fraser trying to understand baseball. All we know is that our father is saying "because he must" but until we see the game of baseball being played it makes no sense to us.
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"I have seen everything that is done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind." -- Ecclesiastes 1:14
#18DarkContractor(Topic Creator)Posted 2/4/2013 6:18:30 PM
From: Julian_Caesar | #013
From: DarkContractor | #011
anyways, I stand by my word, b.o.p. discussion is over gg no re


What does b.o.p. mean? Also, I find it hilarious that you reject the possibility of God being a priori good while at the same time suggesting that we use Scripture to provide an explanation for Hell. You know, the document that says God is Supreme Creator and incapable of being in the presence of sin?

But to answer you from what I believe, the reason Hell exists is because we have free will. God wants us to be with Him forever, but He wants us to choose it out of Love. Not experience it by compulsion. So if you really have a beef with Hell, you have a beef with God giving us free will. At that point, all I can say is to ask God Himself at your most convenient opportunity why He wanted us to have free will.


b.o.p.=burden of proof.

I like how you're only response to my whole bit about that priori was laughter. thats called an appeal to emotion. If God is incapable of being with sin, btw, then he's not omnipotent.

Also, thats not free will. thats an extremely strict dichtomy of torture vs love or inexistence vs love, depending on your theology, completely orchestrated by a benevolent God. Kinda sounds like rape to me, actually.

Who's to say I'd be compulsed instead of motivated by love to be with God? strawman, I HAVE sought God out of pure love. I don't know what else it could be, since I didn't have any evidence. (I didn't know the historicity argument at the time)

don't I have forever to learn to love God anyways?
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An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
#19fudrickPosted 2/4/2013 6:19:15 PM
I find it odd how quickly you jumped back into this atheist personality...
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#20DarkContractor(Topic Creator)Posted 2/4/2013 6:27:54 PM(edited)
From: Silviiro | #016
*admits he doesn't the nature of God and the nature of existence*
*proceeds to go ahead and fill in that unknowable answer with things like perfection and love*


I did not fill in anything, I only gave the possibilities. It's a simple binary system. Either Hell, in whatever form it may exist, is necessary or God as described in the Bible does not exist.


I'm going with the second. Again, minimal evidence for his existence. I see the very concept of Hell being 'necessary' as a disproof in itself, despite this being a false dichotomy that insinuates we automatically trust God if we believe he authored the Bible, but thats another topic.

Didn't I just say something about the priori good argument generally pushing atheists further away from your religion?

btw, havent seen the movie.From: fudrick | #019
I find it odd how quickly you jumped back into this atheist personality...


Well I think I used similar uses of logic, and a similar style of pointing out fallacies when I was a Christian. I also adhered to my philosophy of "Argue beyond the priori good agument". I saw the priori as a motivation that I could come up with a defense besides it if I thought long enough..

Pretty much asking all the questions I was pretending weren't a problem when I was a Christian, though deep down really were bothering me. I enjoy debate. Always have. I enjoy theology. I still enjoy many of Jesus's teachings. As a Christian and atheist, I still enjoy many of Buddha's teachings. As a Christian and an atheist, I enjoy learning about Islamic culture.

In order to fulfill my debating hobby, I come here. Always have. I've simply swapped perspectives but am just as active in my debating as I was a Christian (but I find myself having to concede points far less, hmm. Funny that)
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An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.