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So banning God from school allows things like Clumbine and Newtown...

#1OzymandiasIVPosted 2/4/2013 10:52:33 PM(edited)
This was from a Facebook post I saw floating around:

COLUMBINE STUDENT'S FATHER 12 YEARS LATER!!

Guess our national leaders didn't expect this. On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee. What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful.
They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the transcript:

"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good &evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.
"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart.
"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent
I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy -- it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best.

Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
Your words are empty air.
You've stripped away our heritage,
You've outlawed simple prayer.
Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere,
And ask the question "Why?"
You regulate restrictive laws,
Through legislative creed.
And yet you fail to understand,
That God is what we need!

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Sucking at something is the first step to becoming sort of good at something.
#2OzymandiasIV(Topic Creator)Posted 2/4/2013 10:52:20 PM(edited)
"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact.
What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws.
Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts.

"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him.

To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA -- I give to you a sincere challenge.. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone!
My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!"
- Darrell Scott

Do what the media did not - - let the nation hear this man's speech. Please share this with your FB friends!

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Sucking at something is the first step to becoming sort of good at something.
#3DarkContractorPosted 2/4/2013 10:57:46 PM
so why does he believe Genesis is real but not believe the whole death thing is because of our sins and God won't let us die if we still got stuff left to do on Earth and thou shall not kill and turn the other cheek thing?
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#4lastheroPosted 2/4/2013 10:59:48 PM
he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right!


Um...you don't have to, because no such law EVER existed. I swear, I don't get what people like this are complaining about. You can pray in school. If anyone ever stopped - not that you can really stop someone from praying, since you can do it simply by thinking, really - they would be breaking the law, not you.
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#5mercurydudePosted 2/4/2013 11:07:42 PM
http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/scott.asp
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#6OzymandiasIV(Topic Creator)Posted 2/4/2013 11:09:52 PM
I don't know if this really was from the father of one of the Columbine victims, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out it's fake (much like the Morgan Freeman quotes floating around after Newtown).

There are several issues with this, and, unfortunately, I know too many people that follow this kind of thinking (and, just to be clear, I am not asserting that most Christians believe, but this is the kind of stuff my old community from when I was growing up would believe in).

First, of course, is the complete ignorance of the fact that God is not banned from schools, that students are not forbidden to carry and openly read Bibles, wear crosses, pray, or even lead extra-curricular faith-based programs at the school (which, I believe, school officials can lead as well, so long as attendance is not mandated and that the program in no way influences the teacher's evaluation of the student's performance). So many people are unaware of this and think that the rules say absolutely nothing related to God or religion is allowed in schools. But this isn't the biggest issue I want to talk about (if this interests you, go for it, but I suspect this may be an issue already discussed at length on this board).

The second issue is the incredible appeal to emotion at the beginning, and the claim that this comes from the father of a Columbine victim seems to make the person who wrote this think it puts him and his message above reproach. Surely it was written in as an excuse to dismiss any voicing dissent as cold and heartless for the plight of the victim's father (of course, if this is really from the victim's father, he's using it as a way to put himself above reproach, and if it's from someone else, that person is using the using the victim's father as a way to put the argument above reproach, both of which are just disgusting).



And then there's a somewhat deeper issue that has always bothered me, but which I've never put down into words. Despite the fact taht God has not actually been banned from school, so many people assert that this is what happens when we ban God from schools. This is quite an issue, and none of it really looks favorably on those clamoring to bring religion back into school. First off, there's the ignorance, as stated above.

Then there are the other issues. First, if it simply means we need to teach religion or religious beliefs or pray in school or what-not, then it implies that the parents and Church leaders aren't doing enough to instill this faith and religious belief which is, apparently, the only thing keeping kids from scooting up schools. So this is now a failing of these religious people, and they're trying to push it off onto the schools and the government.

Now, if they mean God is literally not allowed in schools... then that's restricting God. We're putting limitations on him, which should be impossible for the omnipotent being that created us lowly mortals. We couldn't physically restrict him from schools, so if they're trying to say allowing him in school would have prevented this kind of thing, then we are somehow able to physically limit God... which would be an impressive feat.

Or if they mean God is abstaining himself from schools because of these (fictional) laws, then God is being a stubborn oaf refusing to save innocent people because of a law that others (not the victims) put into place.

To sum up those three points, either:
A) the lack of presence of God creates killers, so parents and religious leaders aren't doing what it takes to keep them from being killers and are pushing the blame on the schools/politicians
-or-
B) we're somehow physically restricting God from entering our schools
-or-
C) God is stubborn and won't enter the schools of his own volition because he's stubborn and doesn't like our (fictional) laws.

Thoughts?
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Sucking at something is the first step to becoming sort of good at something.
#7OzymandiasIV(Topic Creator)Posted 2/4/2013 11:10:22 PM
Dammit, I had hoped to get that posted before others had time to respond, lol
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Sucking at something is the first step to becoming sort of good at something.
#8OzymandiasIV(Topic Creator)Posted 2/4/2013 11:14:54 PM
Option A from above can also be quite offensive to atheists and others without God in their lives. If they're suggesting the lack of the presence of God is what causes this to happen, then it's saying we're all killers without God and is ignoring the vast numbers of kind-hearted atheists that would never wish harm upon anyone.

Also, don't get me started on the quality of that "poem," lol.
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Sucking at something is the first step to becoming sort of good at something.
#9JonWood007Posted 2/5/2013 12:26:59 AM
TLDR, but I see this whole line of argument as an incredibly ignorant talking point. Heck, I think a big thing that would stop these kinds of events from happening is to stop publicizing this widely. Since Columbine, we have these kinds of shootings all the time. I think a lot of them do it for attention. They're suicidal, or deranged, or otherwise mentally ill, they want to go out with style, and know the media will talk about them for weeks or more if they go through with it.

I fail to see how school prayer impacts these sorts of things. Especially how one of the schools that was shot up once was a private Amish school (don't believe me? look up Nickel Mines). So Amish didn't pray hard enough?
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#10hamsandwich3141Posted 2/5/2013 12:14:33 PM
OzymandiasIV posted...


Also, don't get me started on the quality of that "poem," lol.


I'm actually fairly impressed by the use of consistent meter.
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