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"Angstheist" is an ugly, ill-conceived word.

#91fudrickPosted 2/8/2013 12:18:19 AM
Patriotwolf posted...
People who I consider "angstheits" are people who become, or currently are, atheists based on emotional reasons rather than logical thought processes. There are even some on this board.


How exactly do you know whether a specific individual atheist renounced faith in god solely for emotional reasons rather than logical thought processes? It seems like you'd have to get to know a person rather intimately before justifiably referring to that person as an angstheist under your definition, unless that person specifically comes out and states that the reasons behind the dismissal of faith were purely emotional. I'm also curious as to which specific atheists you were envisioning when you wrote that last sentence, and whether you have similar negative thoughts regarding people who "become, or currently are, Christians based on emotional reasons rather than logical thought processes."
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#92fudrickPosted 2/8/2013 12:21:37 AM
As for the "lie" discussion: if it's already accepted as a dictionary definition, and people are clearly prone to use the word in that manner at times, I honestly don't see any basis to claim that the definition is inaccurate, or false, or whatever. I'll state again that I do agree that the implication of intentional deceit certainly makes "lie" a far more useful and distinct term, though.
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#93cyclonekrusePosted 2/8/2013 6:44:02 AM
fudrick posted...
As for the "lie" discussion: if it's already accepted as a dictionary definition, and people are clearly prone to use the word in that manner at times, I honestly don't see any basis to claim that the definition is inaccurate, or false, or whatever. I'll state again that I do agree that the implication of intentional deceit certainly makes "lie" a far more useful and distinct term, though.

I think that even though people might use the word to mean any falsehood, when pressed they'll admit that it's not really lying. So it might be a case where the dictionary definition is both accurate and inaccurate. It'd be accurate in the sense that it's tracking actual usage (which is what dictionaries are going for). But it's inaccurate in the sense that if you asked people what a "lie" is, I don't think anyone would offer that definition. Even though I used the word that way, I still think a lie requires knowledge of the deceit. Or actually, belief of the deceit.

Perhaps the dictionary ought to list it like so:
1b (loose):

Then I don't think we'd be having any real dispute. But I don't think dictionaries are in the business of determining what is the "proper" definition and what is the "artistic license" definition.
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#94IvashankoPosted 2/8/2013 7:59:29 AM
It is a word that is necessary- otherwise people would not use it. I can't think of any good reason not to use the word, even though it is admittedly strange.
#95bratt100Posted 2/8/2013 8:06:54 AM
cyclonekruse posted...
fudrick posted...
As for the "lie" discussion: if it's already accepted as a dictionary definition, and people are clearly prone to use the word in that manner at times, I honestly don't see any basis to claim that the definition is inaccurate, or false, or whatever. I'll state again that I do agree that the implication of intentional deceit certainly makes "lie" a far more useful and distinct term, though.

I think that even though people might use the word to mean any falsehood, when pressed they'll admit that it's not really lying. So it might be a case where the dictionary definition is both accurate and inaccurate. It'd be accurate in the sense that it's tracking actual usage (which is what dictionaries are going for). But it's inaccurate in the sense that if you asked people what a "lie" is, I don't think anyone would offer that definition. Even though I used the word that way, I still think a lie requires knowledge of the deceit. Or actually, belief of the deceit.

Perhaps the dictionary ought to list it like so:
1b (loose):

Then I don't think we'd be having any real dispute. But I don't think dictionaries are in the business of determining what is the "proper" definition and what is the "artistic license" definition.


I happen to think its a falsehood that is available information to everybody. The information I'd there they just choose not to use it. Hence lying to oneself, for fear or whatever reason they happen to come up with.
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#96JonWood007Posted 2/8/2013 10:31:43 AM(edited)
FlashOfLight posted...
JonWood007 posted...
The Bible isn't authoritative on anything.


I protest this statement, Sir.


Prove it.

Also to touch on above, I'd say my deconversion was much more logical than emotional. I deconverted mainly because no evidence supported the Christian position. This is not to say emotion played no part, but emotion alone didn't change anything, it was me forcing myself to examine the facts through an educated and scientific mindset that deconverted me.
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#97Hustle KongPosted 2/8/2013 10:31:31 AM
You're the one making a claim. Shouldn't you be the one to prove that the Bible is not authoritative on anything?

Has your angstheism and arrogance made you forget things like that?
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#98JonWood007Posted 2/8/2013 10:37:32 AM
Okay, how about this, the pentateuch probably did not happen, and is inconsistent with history, and was not written by that Moses guy. The more historical OT books tell very biased and inaccurate accounts of what likely went down. The gospels were written anonymously decades after the fact, the prophecies in the Bible are wrong and taken out of context time and time again, the end was near then, but we're still here, and the morality, as I have mentioned many other places is problematic at times according to any modern conventional standard.

Not to mention NOT being authoritative is actually not a claim. It's a default position. If someone testifies in court, you need to prove their qualifications, otherwise they're not authoritative on the subject. Or if a scholarly article is written, it is not authoritative unless the person demonstrates he knows what he's talking about and the article itself is peer reviews. Same with the Bible, it's presumably not authoritative until you prove otherwise, so it's you who is confusing the burden of proof, and not me.
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#99kozlo100Posted 2/8/2013 11:22:39 AM
I think you're confusing the bible not describing events that actually happened with it not being authoritative on anything.

Whether or not anything in the bible actually happened, it's pretty clearly the authoritative work on the doctrine and practice of the Christian religion, particularly for the sola scriptura folks.
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#100JonWood007Posted 2/8/2013 11:37:45 AM(edited)
So in other words its authoritative on itself, and religions based off of it. I'm not sure that counts, since it's awfully circular. I was thinking more along the lines of history, morality, etc.
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