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Why do you believe in God?

#31UnfairRepresent(Topic Creator)Posted 2/15/2013 8:20:23 AM
Iamvegito posted...
From: UnfairRepresent | #029
Or you're wrong

HA! Insult the Biblical scholar because he doesn't support your view of what Christianity should be.


You believe considering the possibility of being mistaken to be an insult?

How arrogant, you're little more than Shodan.
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^ Hey now that's completely unfair.
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#32IamvegitoPosted 2/15/2013 8:26:08 AM
From: UnfairRepresent | #031
How dare you read the Bible in its own context instead of applying Platonic ideas of the soul and Middle Ages concern with life-after-death to it? Eisegesis>exegesis.

Glad to know I can discount your opinion.
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"A day will come when you think yourself safe and happy, and suddenly your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth, and you'll know the debt is paid."
#33UnfairRepresent(Topic Creator)Posted 2/15/2013 9:50:11 AM
Iamvegito posted...
From: UnfairRepresent | #031
How dare you read the Bible in its own context instead of applying Platonic ideas of the soul and Middle Ages concern with life-after-death to it? Eisegesis>exegesis.

Glad to know I can discount your opinion.


I never said that
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^ Hey now that's completely unfair.
http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg
#34Moorish_IdolPosted 2/15/2013 10:04:21 AM
Iamvegito posted...
From: Moorish_Idol | #023
Iamvegito posted...
People who think "eternal life" means "life after death" are committing severe eisegesis on their holy text. That literally wasn't a concern of Jews in the first century or before.

This interests me. What does "eternal life" mean to the Jews?

Well, the phrase in the Bible "eternal life" is a Greek translation of a Hebrew idea of "the life of the age to come." The idea is that the world will be different. The Messiah was thought of as a military leader, while Jesus was a political prophet. One cannot glean "afterlife!" from that phrase.

Similarly, "salvation" is a this-world self-transformation that yields a new view of the world, that can lead to world-transformation.

Naturally, 99.9% of Christians get this wrong and just want to avoid hellfire in the afterlife. This. Is. Wrong.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to look into this more. Is the Christian belief of eternal life a relatively modern belief, or did Jesus and the early Christians start it?
#35Dathrowed1Posted 2/15/2013 10:47:34 AM
No there are Hebrew scriptures that show the Jews in ancient times believed that one day the world would be populated by good people who would live forever.
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#36IamvegitoPosted 2/15/2013 11:47:06 AM
From: Moorish_Idol | #034
Thanks for the info. I'm going to look into this more. Is the Christian belief of eternal life a relatively modern belief, or did Jesus and the early Christians start it?

The idea of "eternal life" (that it is otherworldly) is relatively modern, and certainly wasn't what Jesus would have meant when he talked about it. Paul doesn't even agree with himself when he writes about it, so it couldn't have been too important to his theology, either. The "life in Heaven" thing is a conflation of Christianity with Platonic ideas of the nature of the soul.
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"A day will come when you think yourself safe and happy, and suddenly your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth, and you'll know the debt is paid."
#37IamvegitoPosted 2/15/2013 11:48:01 AM
From: Dathrowed1 | #035
No there are Hebrew scriptures that show the Jews in ancient times believed that one day the world would be populated by good people who would live forever.

I already explained that "live forever" does not mean what you think it means in that context.
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"A day will come when you think yourself safe and happy, and suddenly your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth, and you'll know the debt is paid."
#38Dathrowed1Posted 2/15/2013 12:02:47 PM
Iamvegito posted...
From: Dathrowed1 | #035
No there are Hebrew scriptures that show the Jews in ancient times believed that one day the world would be populated by good people who would live forever.

I already explained that "live forever" does not mean what you think it means in that context.


You don't know what I think it means
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#39IamvegitoPosted 2/15/2013 12:05:38 PM
From: Dathrowed1 | #038
Iamvegito posted...
From: Dathrowed1 | #035
No there are Hebrew scriptures that show the Jews in ancient times believed that one day the world would be populated by good people who would live forever.

I already explained that "live forever" does not mean what you think it means in that context.


You don't know what I think it means

I know that by you placing yourself in opposition to "a future, this-world reality" (which is what it means in that Hebrew context, which is what the discussion has been) that you think it isn't that. That is enough of a conditional for me to disagree with your interpretation of what it means. Your attempt to confront me with "but you don't know what I mean!111" fails.
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"A day will come when you think yourself safe and happy, and suddenly your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth, and you'll know the debt is paid."
#40Dathrowed1Posted 2/15/2013 12:19:23 PM
Iamvegito posted...
From: Dathrowed1 | #038
Iamvegito posted...
From: Dathrowed1 | #035
No there are Hebrew scriptures that show the Jews in ancient times believed that one day the world would be populated by good people who would live forever.

I already explained that "live forever" does not mean what you think it means in that context.


You don't know what I think it means

I know that by you placing yourself in opposition to "a future, this-world reality" (which is what it means in that Hebrew context, which is what the discussion has been) that you think it isn't that. That is enough of a conditional for me to disagree with your interpretation of what it means. Your attempt to confront me with "but you don't know what I mean!111" fails.


Actually it does not. My beliefs about everlasting life are in no way contradicted by anything you've said.
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