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Can we have a sticky of logical fallacies?

#1pennydemonPosted 3/3/2013 3:07:01 AM
On a board like this, or one that deals with similarly controversial subject matter like Politics, it can get tiresome seeing illogical arguments getting tossed around left and right. I've seen pretty much everybody, atheists and religious people alike, invoke fallacious arguments at one point.

I'm proposing a sticky that includes a list of fallacies relevant to discussion of religion, and a brief explanation for each one. Some that I'd like to include:

Appeal to Ridicule (X is ridiculous, therefore X is false)

Appeal to Nature (X is natural, therefore X is good)

Strawman Fallacy (misrepresenting an opponent's position to make it easier to attack)

Appeal to Fear (The notion of X is terrifying, therefore X is false)

Chronological Snobbery (X was held to be true a long time ago, when Y was also held to be true. Y has been proven to be false, therefore X is also false.)

Appeal to Tradition (X is how things have always been, therefore we should continue X)

Godwin's Law (Hitler/Nazis did or believed X, therefore X is inherently bad)

Argumentum ad Lapidem (Literally, 'Appeal to the Stone'- stating that something is ridiculous, but not stating why)

Appeal to Belief (Most people hold X to be true, therefore X is true)

Question-Begging (Holding a conclusion as self-evident, and incorporating it into the premise of a question as if it were automatically true)
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#2JonWood007Posted 3/3/2013 9:20:15 AM(edited)
I guess there's always this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

http://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliamson/ENGL1311/fallacies.htm

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logicalfallacies.aspx
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#3Polish_CrusaderPosted 3/3/2013 9:54:49 AM
We are not saved by logic. What seems smart to man may not seem right to God. So many people claim to be so wise in their rejection of God, this was predicted thousands of years ago.

We are to live by faith and not by sight. If we have faith eventually we will see.

This is what the Lord tells us. This is why these "im more logical than you" arguments are meaningless to me, because they have no bearing on the subject at hand of this board- saving your soul from hell, and getting you to heaven.
#4TheRealJiraiyaPosted 3/3/2013 9:56:55 AM
Polish_Crusader posted...
We are not saved by logic. What seems smart to man may not seem right to God. So many people claim to be so wise in their rejection of God, this was predicted thousands of years ago.

We are to live by faith and not by sight. If we have faith eventually we will see.

This is what the Lord tells us. This is why these "im more logical than you" arguments are meaningless to me, because they have no bearing on the subject at hand of this board- saving your soul from hell, and getting you to heaven.


Logic isnt subjective, if you are committing fallacies in your reasoning that is an objective flaw in your reasoning.
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#5DarkContractorPosted 3/3/2013 10:01:25 AM
From: Polish_Crusader | #003
We are not saved by logic. What seems smart to man may not seem right to God. So many people claim to be so wise in their rejection of God, this was predicted thousands of years ago.

We are to live by faith and not by sight. If we have faith eventually we will see.

This is what the Lord tells us. This is why these "im more logical than you" arguments are meaningless to me, because they have no bearing on the subject at hand of this board- saving your soul from hell, and getting you to heaven.


im trying so hard not laugh
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#6Moorish_IdolPosted 3/3/2013 10:26:30 AM
I don't think it's really appropriate here. If you want to point them out as you see them, go ahead; but this isn't a formal debate website, and not everyone even has a desire to debate formally. I don't think we should expect that of everyone.

Also it'd end up with a bunch of nitpicky "read the sticky" retorts.
#7Polish_CrusaderPosted 3/3/2013 10:30:15 AM
Moorish_Idol posted...
I don't think it's really appropriate here. If you want to point them out as you see them, go ahead; but this isn't a formal debate website, and not everyone even has a desire to debate formally. I don't think we should expect that of everyone.

Also it'd end up with a bunch of nitpicky "read the sticky" retorts.


^ Exactly. I pretty much knew this, but he put it into words.

Ontop of which our soul is not up for debate, regardless of how "logical" your arguments seem to sound. THere is a fixed right and a fixed wrong. So get used to it.
#8DarkContractorPosted 3/3/2013 10:31:47 AM
I think one of the biggest issues would also be the inability to agree on certain things.

Like, take de-converts such as myself. , a Christian might say I was not saved in the first place, an atheist might say that would be a no true scotsmen.
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#9DarkContractorPosted 3/3/2013 10:32:58 AM
From: Polish_Crusader | #007
Moorish_Idol posted...
I don't think it's really appropriate here. If you want to point them out as you see them, go ahead; but this isn't a formal debate website, and not everyone even has a desire to debate formally. I don't think we should expect that of everyone.

Also it'd end up with a bunch of nitpicky "read the sticky" retorts.


^ Exactly. I pretty much knew this, but he put it into words.

Ontop of which our soul is not up for debate, regardless of how "logical" your arguments seem to sound. THere is a fixed right and a fixed wrong. So get used to it.



ill humor you. whys that?
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An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. PSN: MrPillow92 Steam: MrPillowtheGreat
#10JonWood007Posted 3/3/2013 11:36:22 AM(edited)
Polish_Crusader posted...
We are not saved by logic. What seems smart to man may not seem right to God. So many people claim to be so wise in their rejection of God, this was predicted thousands of years ago.

We are to live by faith and not by sight. If we have faith eventually we will see.

This is what the Lord tells us. This is why these "im more logical than you" arguments are meaningless to me, because they have no bearing on the subject at hand of this board- saving your soul from hell, and getting you to heaven.


And this is why you can never convert me. Why should I fear hell when I have no reason to believe it exists?

I don't think it's really appropriate here. If you want to point them out as you see them, go ahead; but this isn't a formal debate website, and not everyone even has a desire to debate formally. I don't think we should expect that of everyone.


I kind of agree with this. I think it's better to call them out on a case by case basis. You also need to keep in mind sometimes "fallacious" arguments are justified. For example, slippery slope is sometimes legit when we're talking about say, an erosion of civil liberties.

I think one of the biggest issues would also be the inability to agree on certain things.

Like, take de-converts such as myself. , a Christian might say I was not saved in the first place, an atheist might say that would be a no true scotsmen.


I actually say an infuriating facebook post by Ray Comfort on r/atheism saying this. Basically he said, either you're lying or God is lying, and god can't lie so you were never a real christian and you should beg for forgiveness and try to do it right this time. He also linked to www.needgod.com, which really has some stellar logic there (sarcasm).
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