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If you believe in any of the Abrahamic faiths, you believe in literal magic.

#1De EvolutionPosted 3/15/2013 3:13:40 PM
Simple as that.

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Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor; and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
#2jastenPosted 3/15/2013 3:23:28 PM
There are still religions around that actually still believe in literal magic that aren't abrahamic at all... though no where near as large or as centralised as the major religions.

As for believing in literal magic automatically being stupid... philosophically I just have to argue against that thinking. Who's to say some one just isn't more enlightened than us and has the ability beyond us to see a realm that is just beyond our perception normally? Or whose to say magic didn't exist thousands of years ago and it faded away (as some fiction romanticises)? There are many arguments that can be made here.

That is not saying I believe in magic though, just my philosophical side noting the possibilities.
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We are not merely the sum of our parts
#3De Evolution(Topic Creator)Posted 3/15/2013 3:43:27 PM
jasten posted...
There are still religions around that actually still believe in literal magic that aren't abrahamic at all... though no where near as large or as centralised as the major religions.


Nowhere did I dispute this fact or imply the contrary. Seeing as how almost half the planet identifies as Christian or Muslim, and me having the experience of both sides being an ex-Muslim in a Christian society, I typically target the 2 main Abrahamic faiths when I make anti-theistic comments on this board.

As for believing in literal magic automatically being stupid... philosophically I just have to argue against that thinking. Who's to say some one just isn't more enlightened than us and has the ability beyond us to see a realm that is just beyond our perception normally? Or whose to say magic didn't exist thousands of years ago and it faded away (as some fiction romanticises)? There are many arguments that can be made here.

That is not saying I believe in magic though, just my philosophical side noting the possibilities.


Excellent points. Like most metaphysics though, I think it comes down to what evidence there is to believe in it, and if that evidence is sound. Angels, demons, tooth fairies, leprechauns, all may have existed thousands of years ago and faded away. But it is illogical to believe in them.

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Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor; and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
#4jastenPosted 3/15/2013 3:51:06 PM
De Evolution posted...
jasten posted...
There are still religions around that actually still believe in literal magic that aren't abrahamic at all... though no where near as large or as centralised as the major religions.


Nowhere did I dispute this fact or imply the contrary. Seeing as how almost half the planet identifies as Christian or Muslim, and me having the experience of both sides being an ex-Muslim in a Christian society, I typically target the 2 main Abrahamic faiths when I make anti-theistic comments on this board.

As for believing in literal magic automatically being stupid... philosophically I just have to argue against that thinking. Who's to say some one just isn't more enlightened than us and has the ability beyond us to see a realm that is just beyond our perception normally? Or whose to say magic didn't exist thousands of years ago and it faded away (as some fiction romanticises)? There are many arguments that can be made here.

That is not saying I believe in magic though, just my philosophical side noting the possibilities.


Excellent points. Like most metaphysics though, I think it comes down to what evidence there is to believe in it, and if that evidence is sound. Angels, demons, tooth fairies, leprechauns, all may have existed thousands of years ago and faded away. But it is illogical to believe in them.


I wouldn't say illogical as much as... "you are more than likely wrong". Course the moment I say that is when a leprachaun comes riding by on a unicorn chasinga pegasus with an ogre flinging fireballs... just so the universe can go "HAH! Thought you had me pegged down did you!"

As long as the ogre misses me and I'm not shiskaskeptic.
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We are not merely the sum of our parts
#5TheRealJiraiyaPosted 3/15/2013 3:52:23 PM
Yes.

Where are you going with this?
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One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. -Plato
http://tinyurl.com/JoinThisIRunIt
#6OrangeWizardPosted 3/15/2013 4:02:29 PM
From: TheRealJiraiya | #005
Yes.


"Magic is silly and obviously fake, since harry potter isn't real, so your religion must be fake too!"
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Trolling and making valid arguments are not mutually exclusive things.
#7De Evolution(Topic Creator)Posted 3/15/2013 4:08:35 PM
OrangeWizard posted...
From: TheRealJiraiya | #005
Yes.


"Magic is silly and obviously fake, since harry potter isn't real, so your religion must be fake too!"


Excellent points. Like most metaphysics though, I think it comes down to what evidence there is to believe in it, and if that evidence is sound. Angels, demons, tooth fairies, leprechauns, all may have existed thousands of years ago and faded away. But it is illogical to believe in them.

---
Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor; and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
#8WelshGamer82Posted 3/15/2013 4:14:17 PM
De Evolution posted...
Simple as that.


Yeah, that sounds about right.
#9OrangeWizardPosted 3/15/2013 4:35:35 PM
From: De Evolution | #007
But it is illogical to believe in them.


By that logic, all history that we have nothing but a written record of is illogical to believe in.
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Trolling and making valid arguments are not mutually exclusive things.
#10De Evolution(Topic Creator)Posted 3/15/2013 4:44:56 PM
OrangeWizard posted...
From: De Evolution | #007
But it is illogical to believe in them.


By that logic, all history that we have nothing but a written record of is illogical to believe in.


I'm not talking about just history I'm talking about concepts that are absolutely contrary to all human experience. I'm talking about supernatural things like people turning into salt, staffs turning into snakes, food falling from the sky, artifacts incinerating people, clay birds turning into real live ones, men with hair that gives them superhuman strength, people rising from the dead, etc.

These things are all directly contrary to human experience and science. Not only is there no evidence FOR them, but everything we can observe through our own senses, experiences, and science go AGAINST them. Therefore it is not reasonable in my opinion to believe in them.

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Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor; and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.