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Why do people cherry pick Leviticus?

#101bratt100(Topic Creator)Posted 3/18/2013 11:35:20 PM
The only thing lost in this debate was my time.

Did I lose because I experience emotion and get angry when people's rights are being stomped on? How dare I show such things when should just let you oppress a whole group of people.

About america. Why is it behind the rest of the western world in everything but military power and national debt? Are you really proud of your broken school system? What about people going bankrupt or dying because they can't afford normal medical care? Hell you guys even import many of your skilled doctors and scientists because the schools are so abysmal that many children can't point out china on a map.

And whenever somebody with any common sense steps up to say something they are stomped on by people with more money and far less reason.

A comes up and says equality for all..oh but not for ***s they clearly don't deserve the same rights we do. You guys where even behind the times with outlawing slavery.

The gap between rich and poor is almost unheard of in any other country outside of the third world, your crime rate is incredibly high and I some areas even the police stay away.

You make very few valid points and you never seem to back up your absurd claims, you even had the gall to insinuate that it was the victims fault in a rape. WTF is wrong in your brain?
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"If the victim was a mute, then she shouldn't really be out alone."- OrangeWizard on rape
#102OrangeWizardPosted 3/18/2013 11:55:22 PM
From: bratt100 | #101
The only thing lost in this debate was my time.


Yeah, you probably didn't have any dignity or pride left, so you can't take away what's not there.

HEYOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Did I lose because I experience emotion and get angry


No. You lost because you let your emotion get in the way of your reason.

Assuming you had any amount of "reason" to your argument in the first place.

How dare I show such things when should just let you oppress a whole group of people.


See? Right there. There's no reason in that statement. Who am I oppressing? Do you remember that we were talking about ancient Israelites? Aren't they all dead, by definition of the word "ancient"?

Haven't I been trying to tell you all that the ENTIRE issue of the laws about how they punish rape, which you think oppress people, are invalid?

About america.


Oh lawdy, here we go.

Why is it behind the rest of the western world in everything but military power and national debt?


I don't know, nor do I really care.
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Trolling and making valid arguments are not mutually exclusive things.
#103OrangeWizardPosted 3/18/2013 11:58:13 PM(edited)
Are you really proud of your broken school system?


I'm not proud of anything about america, really.

What about people going bankrupt or dying because they can't afford normal medical care?


That's a shame.

Hell you guys even import many of your skilled doctors and scientists because the schools are so abysmal that many children can't point out china on a map.


Good thing they don't let children into med school.

What's your point?

And whenever somebody with any common sense steps up to say something they are stomped on by people with more money and far less reason.


Okay. I don't see where you're going with this, though.

A comes up and says equality for all..oh but not for ***s they clearly don't deserve the same rights we do


I...I don't understand this sentence.
#104OrangeWizardPosted 3/19/2013 12:19:52 AM(edited)
You guys where even behind the times with outlawing slavery.


Shame on us, then.

The gap between rich and poor is almost unheard of in any other country outside of the third world, your crime rate is incredibly high and I some areas even the police stay away.


Okay. So?

I don't know how you got it in your head that I love America or something. You said I was "on the wrong side of history".
My reply, "I live in America" was an allusion to the quote "History is written by the victor". America, being one of, if not the, superpower of the world, means that we're the "victor", and thus, we are on the right side, the winning side, of history.

That's all.

I know you poured your love, anger, and all of your sorrow into the shining fingers that wrote your little rant, but none of that really had any impact on me.

Sorry.

But thanks though. It was a nice victory lap.

You make very few valid points


Prove it.

and you never seem to back up your absurd claims


Prove it.

you even had the gall to insinuate that it was the victims fault in a rape.


Well, no, the bible did that.

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Trolling and making valid arguments are not mutually exclusive things.
#105Julian_CaesarPosted 3/21/2013 9:26:03 PM
From: kozlo100 | #097
That's what I was getting at. There is such a thing as a rape that occurs in a place where if you cry for help you will be heard, but you cannot do so because your rapist has defeated your ability to do so.

I've known people who were raped in their own home with their parents within easy earshot, yet did not cry out because the person raping them convinced them that the consequences of doing so were worse than the rape. This law seems to handle such a situation badly.

Imagine how difficult it is for such a person to get a restraining order against their rapist. This is a thing that happens in modern America. Now imagine that they would be stoned to death for the transgression of being so victimized that they could not even scream.


Considering all the things we've recounted about the fate of those (men and women) who have sex before marriage, do you really think an attacker could have convinced any woman not to cry out? I contend that even death would be preferable to not crying out, for a woman of that era, not just socially but financially as well. And I also find it hard to believe that mere pain would have prevented her from crying out. These are women who watched their mothers/sisters give birth without any sort of painkillers or antibiotics or ANYTHING, for God's sake. They knew the definition of pain far beyond what most of us know. And any sort of physical persuasion would have left plenty of evidence that she resisted to the best of her abilities.

I don't think any law is perfect, but this law really does get a bad rep because it applied to a completely different social and cultural context than our laws. God didn't give these laws because they were perfectly ideal according to how He designed mankind, He gave them to make the best of a bad/fallen situation (because of "the hardness of their hearts", as Jesus said).
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Every day the rest of your life is changed forever.
#106OrangeWizardPosted 3/21/2013 9:29:52 PM
From: Julian_Caesar | #105
I don't think any law is perfect, but this law really does get a bad rep because it applied to a completely different social and cultural context than our laws.


It's gets a bad rep because atheists with an agenda need to try and transform it into ammo.
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Trolling and making valid arguments are not mutually exclusive things.
#107kozlo100Posted 3/25/2013 12:47:17 PM
Julian_Caesar posted...
Considering all the things we've recounted about the fate of those (men and women) who have sex before marriage, do you really think an attacker could have convinced any woman not to cry out?


Yes, I do. Threats against loved ones can be very powerful, particularly when made by the kind of person who would rape someone.

I think you're still imagining the 'jumping her and holding her down' kind of rape. That's not the only kind that happens. There is also the 'you're going to do what I say because if you don't then my buddy over here is going to go gut your mother like a fish.'

Then there is contrived blackmail. There are a whole lot of avenues evil people can go with that one. Abuse of authority is another way this could happen. I don't know what intoxicants they had available at the time, but the concept of a roofie isn't unthinkable.

And sure, you can probably come up with some things 'she should have done' but we're having this conversation from the comfort of our desks with all the time and safety in the world to reason this out.

You take the kind of victim that rapists tend to select, vulnerable, impressionable, meek, and easily frightened, and you expect her to reason all of this through in a time where she's very scared and being subjected to tremendous pressure and manipulation from a very evil person, and punish her as if she was guilty of a capitol offense if she can't?

That's what I'm getting at. This law works in a world where the evil people are always slow-witted thugs, victims are never powerless, and optimal solutions to bad situations are always immediately available. That world has never existed.
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Time flies like the wind,
and fruit flies like a banana.