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Going to Heaven if you never heard the Gospel

#21LastManStandingPosted 3/20/2013 9:32:53 PM
After repentance no cursing, inner peace and calmness, no touching oneself, protection of Holy Spirit from lust... Amazing transformation.
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#22ravenomoarPosted 3/21/2013 9:15:20 AM
LastManStanding posted...
After repentance no cursing, inner peace and calmness, no touching oneself, protection of Holy Spirit from lust... Amazing transformation.


All things done by many people without your god or your religion.
#23DarkContractor(Topic Creator)Posted 3/21/2013 3:29:19 PM
SirThinkALot posted...
I think you are reading too much into Paul's words.


I'm taking them at face value. My interpretations are literal interpretations.


I dont think he's saying that Christianity is obvious, but that people have a natural inclination to seek God, even with their imperfect knowledge, and that those who havent heard the Gospel, but are sincere seekers, can still find something of God, even if their understanding is imperfect


That's not what he said at all. Romans 1:18 to the end of Romans 1 is talking specifically about nonbelievers 'fools' as the Bible calls them. He specifically mentioned people swapping out their image of God for false idols at the end, and so God abandoned them. The exact verse I quoted was saying God (Yahweh, not just a higher deity) can easily be inferred through nature and that no one had an excuse to not him, we are just too prideful.

I would also add that I dont think everyone's understanding of God is imperfect.


Agreed.

So really Christians are more or less in the same boat.


Irrelevant; No one is saying perfect theology is necessary to get saved. Paul IS saying you have 0 excuse to not believe, however.

I feel like you're trying to just make the most benevolent interpretation possible, while really I don't see how you could logically come to that, it's a very eisegetical interpretation.
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#24Julian_CaesarPosted 3/21/2013 11:16:53 PM
From: DarkContractor | #003
So, just so we're all clear, if you do not make Jesus your Lord/Savior in this life you are going to Hell, whatever your theology of Hell may be, according to the Bible. If you feel that's benevolent, that's your prerogative. I'm just pointing that out.


Well I agree. Though I wonder whether God shares your interpretation that you have to know the specific name "Jesus" in order to do so. There's a very interesting passage in Jeremiah that seems to indicate otherwise, wherein a non-Hebrew tribe was granted the same "priest" benefits as the Hebrews because of their adherence to an ancestor's teachings. At least, that's the only way I can see it...it's chapter 29 or 35, or something. I'll have to find it again tomorrow, because I might be completely wrong and I'd be curious to see your viewpoint on it.
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#25DarkContractor(Topic Creator)Posted 3/22/2013 5:01:13 AM
From: Julian_Caesar | #024
From: DarkContractor | #003
So, just so we're all clear, if you do not make Jesus your Lord/Savior in this life you are going to Hell, whatever your theology of Hell may be, according to the Bible. If you feel that's benevolent, that's your prerogative. I'm just pointing that out.


Well I agree. Though I wonder whether God shares your interpretation that you have to know the specific name "Jesus" in order to do so. There's a very interesting passage in Jeremiah that seems to indicate otherwise, wherein a non-Hebrew tribe was granted the same "priest" benefits as the Hebrews because of their adherence to an ancestor's teachings. At least, that's the only way I can see it...it's chapter 29 or 35, or something. I'll have to find it again tomorrow, because I might be completely wrong and I'd be curious to see your viewpoint on it.


Fair enough, I can concede that possibility, if that passage happened the way you make it sound like. What modern religions would you say is Christianity with a different name?

And I'd also like to ask you a couple of questions. Just so we're clear, if someone has literally never heard of the Gospel at all, they're still going to Hell. Agreed? Do you believe we all instinctively know about Yahweh and what is and isn't a sin?
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#26Flaming_Fire619Posted 3/22/2013 8:25:35 AM
The way the Catholic Church stated it..and I find it an alright explanation, is that God works in all religions. So even if you've never heard of Christianity and believe in specific Christianity, you will be judged by the "one God"

My thoughts? Believing in God is nice, but what really decides our fate is our actions. God to me has always been a moral compass and values. I believe there is something after, I just don't know what it is. I really hope it isn't just heaven in the clouds and eternal bliss (I'm still banking on reincarnation >_>), but I do believe there is something to be said about having a form of guide in your morality. But you don't need God to have a good place in the afterlife.

Here's the way I always describe it; if you have an atheist that follows all the morals of a Christian, is he going to hell just because he doesn't believe?
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#27DarkContractor(Topic Creator)Posted 3/22/2013 10:50:23 AM
From: Flaming_Fire619 | #026
The way the Catholic Church stated it..and I find it an alright explanation, is that God works in all religions. So even if you've never heard of Christianity and believe in specific Christianity, you will be judged by the "one God"


It doesn't matter what the Church says, it matters what the Bible says. The theology should shape the Church, not the other way around.

My thoughts? Believing in God is nice, but what really decides our fate is our actions. God to me has always been a moral compass and values. I believe there is something after, I just don't know what it is. I really hope it isn't just heaven in the clouds and eternal bliss (I'm still banking on reincarnation >_>), but I do believe there is something to be said about having a form of guide in your morality. But you don't need God to have a good place in the afterlife.


Not according to the Bible.

Here's the way I always describe it; if you have an atheist that follows all the morals of a Christian, is he going to hell just because he doesn't believe?


See prior.
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#28OrangeWizardPosted 3/22/2013 11:15:54 AM
From: DarkContractor | #027
Not according to the Bible.


ITT: Atheists interpret the bible and come to the unsurprising conclusion that God is evil.
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#29countzanderPosted 3/22/2013 8:13:51 PM
DarkContractor posted...

[...]

So, just so we're all clear, if you do not make Jesus your Lord/Savior in this life you are going to Hell, whatever your theology of Hell may be, according to the Bible. If you feel that's benevolent, that's your prerogative. I'm just pointing that out.


You go to hell only if you've heard of Jesus and then reject him. If you've never heard of him, then as the passage in Roman implies, you're under some kind of natural law which most people just instinctively follow anyway.
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#30Moorish_IdolPosted 3/23/2013 1:05:51 AM
countzander posted...
DarkContractor posted...

[...]

So, just so we're all clear, if you do not make Jesus your Lord/Savior in this life you are going to Hell, whatever your theology of Hell may be, according to the Bible. If you feel that's benevolent, that's your prerogative. I'm just pointing that out.


You go to hell only if you've heard of Jesus and then reject him. If you've never heard of him, then as the passage in Roman implies, you're under some kind of natural law which most people just instinctively follow anyway.

What if you don't chose to reject him? What if you remain undecided about Jesus until you die? Does that count as a rejection if you never truly decided to not follow / believe in him?