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In honor of Easter, let's entertain the supposed evidence for the resurrection

#51OrangeWizardPosted 3/31/2013 11:57:24 PM
From: Mike_Stanton | #050
That still invalidates the argument that they wouldn't have died for a lie, therefore they weren't lying.


I don't care about what "they" died for.

All I want to know is why you think that any hypothetical person would die for whatever hypothetical thing they knew to be a lie.
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#52bratt100Posted 4/1/2013 12:14:14 AM
Moorish_Idol posted...
Why would someone willingly be killed for something they know is a lie?


Cult leaders have done this in the past, I don't see how christianity is different in this regard.

It also doesn't really matter if they were lying themselves, you can still die for a lie even if you believe it to be truth...somebody knew and they didn't care that others would suffer for it.
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"If the victim was a mute, then she shouldn't really be out alone."- OrangeWizard on rape
#53OrangeWizardPosted 4/1/2013 12:17:48 AM
From: bratt100 | #052
Cult leaders have done this in the past,


Like who? And who's to say they didn't delude themselves, or have some ulterior motive like "I can't live without this cult" that isn't a lie?
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#54Mike_Stanton(Topic Creator)Posted 4/1/2013 12:20:35 AM
From: OrangeWizard | #051
From: Mike_Stanton | #050
That still invalidates the argument that they wouldn't have died for a lie, therefore they weren't lying.


I don't care about what "they" died for.

All I want to know is why you think that any hypothetical person would die for whatever hypothetical thing they knew to be a lie.

I literally explained that to you about 7 times or something.
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#55OrangeWizardPosted 4/1/2013 12:21:59 AM
All I've seen you do is confuse "dying for something you know to be a lie" with "dying for a greater cause" or "dying for what you believe in" or "dying for Christianity" or something else that doesn't answer my question.
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Trolling and making valid arguments are not mutually exclusive things.
#56bratt100Posted 4/1/2013 1:46:39 AM
OrangeWizard posted...
From: bratt100 | #052
Cult leaders have done this in the past,


Like who? And who's to say they didn't delude themselves, or have some ulterior motive like "I can't live without this cult" that isn't a lie?


ive already said this but Jim Jones.
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"If the victim was a mute, then she shouldn't really be out alone."- OrangeWizard on rape
#57Mike_Stanton(Topic Creator)Posted 4/1/2013 2:00:46 AM
From: OrangeWizard | #055
All I've seen you do is confuse "dying for something you know to be a lie" with "dying for a greater cause" or "dying for what you believe in" or "dying for Christianity" or something else that doesn't answer my question.

Doing something for a greater cause does explain why they were martyred despite lying. Stop being obtuse.
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RIP Butters_1188 2005-2009
Prove me wrong
#58SirThinkALotPosted 4/1/2013 5:47:21 AM
What makes anyone feel compelled to believe in their religion? Why did the first Muslims believe that an angel told Muhammad that the Christians and Jews were full of s*** when they didn't witness it for themselves?


Its fair to ask that. In the case of Islam, it had the whole 'convert or die' thing going for it in its early days. Which wasnt even an option for Christianity until some 400 years after the fact.
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#59SirThinkALotPosted 4/1/2013 5:52:00 AM
Mike_Stanton posted...
I already clarified that. They lied about witnessing the resurrection, but martyred themselves for their belief that it happened along with every other aspect of their faith.


Let me ask you this: If they knew they wernt witnesses to the Ressurection, why did they believe it had happened? Especially given that at the time pagans didnt believe in ressurection at all, and Jews believed that nobody would be ressurected until the end of times, certainly not the Messiah who would never even die in the first place.
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#60bratt100Posted 4/1/2013 6:09:44 AM
SirThinkALot posted...
Mike_Stanton posted...
I already clarified that. They lied about witnessing the resurrection, but martyred themselves for their belief that it happened along with every other aspect of their faith.


Let me ask you this: If they knew they weren't witnesses to the Ressurection, why did they believe it had happened? Especially given that at the time pagans didnt believe in ressurection at all, and Jews believed that nobody would be ressurected until the end of times, certainly not the Messiah who would never even die in the first place.


Why do most believe when they haven't witnessed anything to support such a claim? Because they were told by a person they respected enough to not question the story. They where told this by an authority figure and it took, we see this every single day in every modern religion (and school)

It's also remarkably easy for people to implant memories and completely believe those that are not their own. Your brain changes every second of every day and simply being in an area and then hearing a story that takes place there can be enough to rewrite your own memory and change significant details in your recollection.

This is why eye witness testimony is mostly unusable, our brains aren't reliable enough to be trustworthy. If it were a computer it would be your grandmothers that is packed with virus' malware and six different toolbars.

It doesn't matter if they claimed to be eye witnesses, their testimony is highly suspect and given that immense amount of time that has passed since then, the original story is long since gone, lost in time even.
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"If the victim was a mute, then she shouldn't really be out alone."- OrangeWizard on rape