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Anyone ever fasted from something other than food?

#21TheRealJiraiyaPosted 4/16/2013 7:34:09 PM
chukie_sue posted...
From: TheRealJiraiya | #058
There is the good fruit found in not getting prostate cancer, which masturbation reduces. Your body was built to ejaculate regularly. If you dont do it yourself, itll force it at night. And if "adultery in your heart" is the problem, Id rather control it than turn it loose in my dreams.


For the sake of brevity I'm going to just get right to it and be concise. Again, I don't want to appear hostile... which is very easy to do over the internet.


Please stop apologizing, we are friends and I would never take offense at a difference of opinion.

If health was an aim of mine, I would have quit being a Christian long ago. Paul certainly wouldn't have signed up for the gig either. The health effects of not masturbating are only worth considering if it is concluded that masturbation is not a sin, which hasn't been established yet. It can be very beneficial to your health to sin; that doesn't mean we should do it. Going on long fasts is not healthy, nor is preaching in dangerous countries. But we find both being commended by God in the Bible.


Indeed, but you commented on the fruit, and I brought up some good fruit. There might be bad fruit that outweighs it, but there is certainly good fruit.

Plus, your latter example (preaching in dangerous countries) isnt really a health issue, and a fast is not a morally required thing, and it is permissible to avoid one.

Your body was built to ejaculate, and the Bible only comments on masturbation once. Ejaculation is morally permissible.

David in Psalm 19 distinguishes a difference between unintentional sins and willful sins. I don't know if God will hold people accountable for their dreams. But I can't think of any biblical text to support the notion of sinning so as not to sin later. In my own life I've found that eliminating sources like TV or music that fills my mind with sexual images/innuendo and etc has seriously reduced any dreams of that nature.


I dont know how to respond to this because I dont believe any of it is a sin. It is like God blaming you for having a leg. He designed your body to ejaculate.
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One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. -Plato
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#22chukie_suePosted 4/16/2013 7:46:42 PM
From: TheRealJiraiya | #101
Indeed, but you commented on the fruit, and I brought up some good fruit. There might be bad fruit that outweighs it, but there is certainly good fruit.

Plus, your latter example (preaching in dangerous countries) isnt really a health issue, and a fast is not a morally required thing, and it is permissible to avoid one.

Your body was built to ejaculate, and the Bible only comments on masturbation once. Ejaculation is morally permissible.


Sorry, by fruit I was referring to moral fruit, not benefits. Preaching is dangerous countries will inevitably cause your health to be damaged. If maintaining great health is morally required, then all martyrs seemed to have transgressed, especially Jesus. If maintaining good health is not morally required, then the health benefits of masturbating have no relevance as to whether it is moral or not.

The reason I brought of fasting was to make a point about our health and whether we should make moral claims based off of how healthy something is.

Your body was indeed built to do that and it is indeed morally permissible. I would go so far as to say that if you can do it, God would have you glorify Him by enjoying any gift. But we're discussing the morality of the means by which this end is achieved.


I dont know how to respond to this because I dont believe any of it is a sin. It is like God blaming you for having a leg. He designed your body to ejaculate.


What I meant to imply by posting that passage is that I think that psalm conveys the message unintentional sins ought to be preferred over willful sins.
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"Christ is with those of humble mind, not with those who exalt themselves over his flock." -St. Clement of Rome.
#23chukie_suePosted 4/16/2013 7:50:07 PM
Also I'm getting off the computer for now so maybe we will continue tomorrow!
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"Christ is with those of humble mind, not with those who exalt themselves over his flock." -St. Clement of Rome.
#24Mighty-Oregon(Topic Creator)Posted 4/16/2013 8:37:40 PM
I was always told masturbation was a sin because when you masturbate your usually watching or thinking of something that sexually attracts you... Which I thought if you think of another women in a sexual way then its considered lust which is a sin. Unless you can masturbate to nothingness.
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Ducks fan since 1989. Mighty Oregon 2013 Fiesta Bowl CHAMPIONS!
#25kozlo100Posted 4/16/2013 9:27:14 PM(edited)
chukie_sue posted...
What I meant to imply by posting that passage is that I think that psalm conveys the message unintentional sins ought to be preferred over willful sins.


Pardon if I jump in here, but I have a thought regarding this.

It is a medical fact that the male human body will ejaculate with a certain frequency, short of radical surgical modification, this cannot be helped, and I don't think anybody is really disputing that.

My thought is that this function can be accomplished consciously, with a degree of restraint and control, or unconsciously with no control.

My thought is that the controlled method can be described as a willful sin, as you point out, but the uncontrolled method can be very vivid and powerful, exposing one to thoughts and temptations that might otherwise have been avoided.

The ascetic in me says you should avoid the willful sin, and accept the greater challenge of resisting the effects of the dreams. The flip side is that there are plenty of verses suggesting one avoid exposure to things that might cause one to wander from the path.

I wonder where the balance between those positions lies. Thought for the TC's sake, I will say that balance is clearly not with porn. I don't think there's any scripturally valid path that leads to porn being acceptable.
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Time flies like the wind,
and fruit flies like a banana.
#26TheRealJiraiyaPosted 4/16/2013 9:15:08 PM
kozlo100 posted...
Thought for the TC's sake, I will say that balance is clearly not with porn. I don't think there's any scripturally valid path that leads to porn be acceptable.


Agreed there.
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One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. -Plato
http://tinyurl.com/JoinThisIRunIt
#27Lord_IchmaelPosted 4/16/2013 9:20:37 PM
I read this as "anyone ever tasted something other than food?" >___>

To answer the topic question, nope, not that I remember.
#28SilviiroPosted 4/16/2013 9:35:56 PM
I did a thing on lust here a while back. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/263-religion/64548369

Of course you're free to disagree with me.
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"I have seen everything that is done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind." -- Ecclesiastes 1:14
#29the_hedonistPosted 4/18/2013 7:11:09 AM
TheRealJiraiya posted...
Lust is excessively sexualizing and so forth. Natural reactions (such as "I noticed that woman is attractive") are not lust. This indicates an exception for natural bodily stuff, and men are built to ejaculate regularly.

And if you dont, you will do it in your sleep, and thatll come with "lust"ful dreams.

Plus the Bible talks about it in the OT - Im too lazy to look it up, but OT Law puts it in the same category as wet dreams, and the "punishment" is the same as with periods - clean yourself so the fluids dont mess up our ancient healthness


I am not comfortable with saying masturbation is sinful 100% of the time. But, in my experience, it's kinda like playing with fire and trying not to get burnt.

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.' (Matthew 5:27-30, ESV)

It seems that you admit that there is an "excessive sexualizing." Not to be too graphic or personal, but in my experience, masturbation is most often coupled with excessive sexualizing of a female object. And in my experience, when going through long periods of no ejaculation, the resultant wet dream was almost never accompanied by lust-filled dreams (either way, when I am conscious, I can willfully stop my behavior, when I am in a dream, the will is very much subdued, if not non-existent; also, afaik, God never held anyone accountable to something that happened in a dream in the Bible).

I have tried to justify masturbation by attempting to not commit adultery in my heart - not to "look at a woman with lustful intent." But like I said, it's like playing with fire and trying not to get burnt. Probably 75% or more of the time, I sinned in doing so. It was because I was addicted to the sexual release and I would do anything to get it. I was in denial. Perhaps it is possible to masturbate without sinning. The Bible does not say not to masturbate. As for me, attempting to masturbate without sinning means that I am not obeying Jesus' command in the following verses: to take whatever radical steps necessary to stop myself from sinning. I was actually doing the opposite: trying to get as close to the sin as possible without actually sinning.

I have heard it said that it is "healthy" to masturbate. Honestly, I don't know what that means and I've looked into it and never heard anything past that statement. My questions are twofold: what does it mean that it is "healthy" to masturbate? And, is the reverse true - is it unhealthy to abstain from masturbating? This has never been explained to me. And in my attempt at research, I came to no positive conclusion. If proved otherwise, I would have to re-orient my position, but as of now, this is how I see it.

TRJ, this is a matter between you and God. I do not condemn you for it. This is a gray issue in Scripture, and you can ask God to search your heart and see if there be any grievous way in it. But I would hope that you would be careful in telling other people that masturbation is not a sin. Knowing our culture, masturbation is most often accompanied by lustful intent, and that is sinful. To say that masturbation is okay without any qualifications could be misleading. I hope you consider that when you communicate your opinion in the future.
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"Why should I gain from His reward? I cannot give an answer.
But this I know with all my heart - His wounds have paid my ransom."
#30the_hedonistPosted 4/18/2013 7:13:48 AM
To answer the question: I have done multiple types of fast. I have fasted from food (although I typically drink fruit juice and water in this type of fast). I have fasted from media (I have done 3-wk media fasts twice before - extremely helpful; I would highly recommend it). Also, I have done a 3-wk "Daniel fast" in which I only ate fruits and veggies (no meat, bread, sweets, coffee, soda, tea, etc.)
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"Why should I gain from His reward? I cannot give an answer.
But this I know with all my heart - His wounds have paid my ransom."