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The difference between religious fundamentalism and antitheism:

#41linkkhalid89Posted 4/29/2013 11:43:29 AM(edited)
DarkContractor posted...
In 1+x=3, x is the number 2 (im skipping possibilities like "(-2+4)" for simplicity's sake)
Now, if 1 and 3 were subtituted for y and z, and we only have y+x=z, x STILL equals 2 regardless if we verify it. If I were to say that x=10, I would be incorrect and not know it. If I were to say that x does =2, I would be correct and not know it.

I just want to clarify that "-2 + 4" is not different than 2, it's just a way of expressing the number 2.

Anyway, I have to agree that "you guys just don't get it, you should read up" is about the lamest response ever. Though I think Vegito is trying to point out that the statements:

1) There is no objective truth
2) The above is an objective truth

are contradictory premises. If 1) is true, then you cannot have 2). I can't say for sure because I'm pretty unfamiliar with postmodern philosophy.
#42Julian_CaesarPosted 4/29/2013 12:11:37 PM(edited)
From: linkkhalid89 | #041
1) There is no objective truth
2) The above is an objective truth

are contradictory premises. If 1) is true, then you cannot have 2). I can't say for sure because I'm pretty unfamiliar with postmodern philosophy.


Well that's quite true. But if postmodernism says that 1) is the state of existence, then the claim (made by C_Mat and DC and myself, pending clarification from Vegito of what exactly postmodernism says about truth) is that without 2) also being true, there is nothing to say that postmodernism ought to be believed at all. In other words, postmodernism is caught in a bind:

Either

1) There is no objective truth. By definition that cannot be an objectively true statement. Therefore no objective basis exists for postmodernism to be superior to modernism.

Or

2)There is no objective truth. And that is an objectively true statement, thus you must accept postmodernism as being superior to modernism.


As it is with That-Argument-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named, prior assumptions play a big role in this kind of debate. The question ultimately becomes that of how much of your worldview you are willing to accept as subjective assumption, and how much you insist on declaring to be objective and undeniable.
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#43DarkContractorPosted 4/29/2013 12:23:03 PM
From: linkkhalid89 | #041
DarkContractor posted...
In 1+x=3, x is the number 2 (im skipping possibilities like "(-2+4)" for simplicity's sake)
Now, if 1 and 3 were subtituted for y and z, and we only have y+x=z, x STILL equals 2 regardless if we verify it. If I were to say that x=10, I would be incorrect and not know it. If I were to say that x does =2, I would be correct and not know it.

I just want to clarify that "-2 + 4" is not different than 2, it's just a way of expressing the number 2.

Anyway, I have to agree that "you guys just don't get it, you should read up" is about the lamest response ever. Though I think Vegito is trying to point out that the statements:

1) There is no objective truth
2) The above is an objective truth

are contradictory premises. If 1) is true, then you cannot have 2). I can't say for sure because I'm pretty unfamiliar with postmodern philosophy.



trust me he does that all the time. its pretty funny.
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#44linkkhalid89Posted 4/29/2013 12:31:12 PM
Yeah, I've seen him on the politics board. Still, I think the complaint raised by C_Mat is wrong for the reason posted above. It doesn't make sense to ask "is the statement 'there are no objective truths' an objective truth?"
#45C_MatPosted 4/29/2013 12:42:12 PM
linkkhalid89 posted...
Yeah, I've seen him on the politics board. Still, I think the complaint raised by C_Mat is wrong for the reason posted above. It doesn't make sense to ask "is the statement 'there are no objective truths' an objective truth?"


It makes perfect sense to ask that. The problem is that only one answer makes sense, but the post-modernist won't admit it.
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#46Julian_CaesarPosted 4/29/2013 12:52:57 PM
From: linkkhalid89 | #044
Yeah, I've seen him on the politics board. Still, I think the complaint raised by C_Mat is wrong for the reason posted above. It doesn't make sense to ask "is the statement 'there are no objective truths' an objective truth?"


No, the question is still important, just not for the reasons you might suspect. Of course it makes no logical sense, but it makes good argumentative sense. What I mean is that by asking the question, it leads to the followup question of what are postmodernism's reasons for accepting "no objective truths" in the first place?". And if there are no reasons, then postmodernism is more accurately categorized as "faith-based belief" than "philosophical worldview." Which provokes a certain reaction from most postmodernists, since they abhor the notion that they might be philosophically related to something as structural as religion.
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Every day the rest of your life is changed forever.
#47Iamvegito(Topic Creator)Posted 4/30/2013 5:19:14 AM
The trollery is strong with this board. "I don't know postmodernism, so I'm going to apply modern "critiques" to it because I don't understand how all of my presuppositions are constructed and I'm just going to keep doing it despite my ignorance of what I'm arguing against" is about as trolly as it gets.
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#48linkkhalid89Posted 4/30/2013 5:29:43 AM
These vague, condescending "you're just ignorant about this philosophy" remarks aren't convincing anyone. Rather than being pompously dismissive, why don't you actually address the points raised?
#49Iamvegito(Topic Creator)Posted 4/30/2013 5:34:04 AM
RATIONALISM IS A MODERN CONSTRUCT. IT IS NOT THE END-ALL, BE-ALL FOR POSTMODERNISM.

Jesus.
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"A day will come when you think yourself safe and happy, and suddenly your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth, and you'll know the debt is paid."