This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

Okay, so let's get to the bottom of this

#1JonWood007Posted 4/29/2013 1:34:10 PM
Offer your best reasons to believe in God. No bullcrap. No "you gotta have faith", no vague responses or dancing around the issue. Just valid reasons to believe in God. Go, go, GO!
---
Desktop: Phenom II X4 965 | 8 GB DDR3 | GTX 580 | 1 TB HDD | W7 | 650W Antec | 1600x900
Laptop: A6 3400m | 4 GB DDR3 | HD 6520g | 500 GB HDD | W7 | 1366x768
#2WelshGamer82Posted 4/29/2013 1:37:52 PM
No one post; it's a trap.
---
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7020/jesustwitter.jpg
On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand. < ><
#3LosingStreak06Posted 4/29/2013 1:38:19 PM
Reason, my boy, has got nothing to do with it, and it is your failure to comprehend that fundamental axiom that will forever cripple any understanding you could hope to have of the nature of any religious precepts, up to and including gods.
---
Show me your might! Give me your best shot!
You call this a fight? I said your best shot!
#4WelshGamer82Posted 4/29/2013 1:39:52 PM(edited)
From: LosingStreak06 | Posted: 4/29/2013 9:38:19 PM | #003

Actually yeah, you can post if you want to. But only you.
---
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7020/jesustwitter.jpg
On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand. < ><
#5Magyar15Posted 4/29/2013 1:48:50 PM
http://img5.joyreactor.com/pics/post/comics-SMBC-god-religion-642185.gif
---
A good man would prefer to be defeated than to defeat injustice by evil means - Sallust
#6JonWood007(Topic Creator)Posted 4/29/2013 2:12:46 PM
Reason, my boy, has got nothing to do with it, and it is your failure to comprehend that fundamental axiom that will forever cripple any understanding you could hope to have of the nature of any religious precepts, up to and including gods.


You reject reason but talk of understanding. Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

http://img5.joyreactor.com/pics/post/comics-SMBC-god-religion-642185.gif


LOL.
---
Desktop: Phenom II X4 965 | 8 GB DDR3 | GTX 580 | 1 TB HDD | W7 | 650W Antec | 1600x900
Laptop: A6 3400m | 4 GB DDR3 | HD 6520g | 500 GB HDD | W7 | 1366x768
#7WelshGamer82Posted 4/29/2013 2:27:28 PM
So who decides what constitutes a valid argument?
---
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7020/jesustwitter.jpg
On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand. < ><
#8JonWood007(Topic Creator)Posted 4/29/2013 2:33:19 PM
Well seeing how I'm your audience I guess it's technically me, but honestly, basically, I just put that above to get rid of the dancing around the topic I often hear. Basically, the big no nos are obvious logical fallacies, shifting the burden of proof, intentionally evading the question and not giving me a straight answer, stuff like that. I basically just want a atraightforward discussion on it. That being said, what is a "valid" argument in terms of what I consider to be the kind of argument to be submitted, I'm just gonna say you should submit it in good faith. Obviously, if I don't find it convincing, I'll tell you so and explain why, but I just want to avoid some of the logical quagmires (think OW's debate style here) and evasive manuevers I often see in discussion on this board.
---
Desktop: Phenom II X4 965 | 8 GB DDR3 | GTX 580 | 1 TB HDD | W7 | 650W Antec | 1600x900
Laptop: A6 3400m | 4 GB DDR3 | HD 6520g | 500 GB HDD | W7 | 1366x768
#9WelshGamer82Posted 4/29/2013 2:35:20 PM
Oh ok, I don't have one, then.
---
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7020/jesustwitter.jpg
On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand. < ><
#10JonWood007(Topic Creator)Posted 4/29/2013 2:45:02 PM
Or, how about this. I give you a little background as to how my brain works. This is the short version btw, but I basically start out with a form of solipsism. I don't know what's real, if anything. Descartes proves his own existence with the statement, I think therefore I am. So you can be sure of your existence.

Now, onto the world. The world may or may not be real, but my ultimate conclusion based on the logic and evidence available is that it is "real enough". Why? Well, I wake up every day, and can consistently interact with the world. My actions have consequences, people and things behave in ways based on my actions. I'm also subject to both natural and human made laws. I can't break the natural laws and neither can anyone else. If I break a human made law, I pay the penalty like everyone else.

If this world is false, I have no reason of knowing it. THis world is all I have to work with, since it's the only one I interact with. I don't know what may lie beyond, if anything, but one guess is as good as any. In order to have a convincing argument as to what may lie beyond, I need evidence and/or logic to convince me.

And this is where God comes in. Clearly, if you're gonna convince me of God, you must appeal to something in this world to get me there, because it's all I have to work with. You must also have reasons as to why such things actually lead to God. You shouldnt shift the burden of proof and ask me to prove you wrong, because such logic can apply to any method, regardless of its validity. You can't ask m to prove hundreds of contradictory methods wrong when you don't give me a good reason to believe in them in the first place. It's better to be objective and to reject all methods tentatively until I can be certain of their veracity. Not to mention without evidence, God is as valid as any other possibility of what lies beyond this world. And the thing is, without evidence, your view is logically just as valid as any other view out there. You're not really arguing for a truth without evidence, only one possibility out of many thousands or millions or billions.

That should give you the kinds of evidence and arguments I'm looking for. I don't think I'm being unreasonable here, nor dishonest as you accused me of being in another topic.
---
Desktop: Phenom II X4 965 | 8 GB DDR3 | GTX 580 | 1 TB HDD | W7 | 650W Antec | 1600x900
Laptop: A6 3400m | 4 GB DDR3 | HD 6520g | 500 GB HDD | W7 | 1366x768