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the holy fire miracle

#51darkmaian23Posted 5/9/2013 11:02:13 AM
Chaos Scade posted...
I'm not actually all that sure what to think of the Holy Fire, despite the fact that not even a week ago I was there and witnessed it and lit my own candle on the flame, so this isn't a deep-seated emotional knee-jerk reaction, but the fact is that I'm attempting to try and balance out the dialogue on this a little bit from the point of view of someone who is more familiar with the phenomenon than anyone else here on this board.


I see. I apologize for misunderstanding you, and I hope I have caused no offense.
#52Chaos ScadePosted 5/9/2013 11:03:21 AM(edited)
Just as an aside...

From: darkmaian23 | #049
Out of all the possible miracles the God who created Heaven and Earth could perform, why would he choose something so small and insignificant to do (and something so easily faked)? Is lighting a candle on a fire a better miracle than healing crippled Christian children who are without fault, or the severely mentally ill who will never really know the wonderful world God created?


The thing is that I'm not entirely certain that, even if we were to concede that it was indeed a legit miracle, it would be meant to be touted as a miracle that "proved" Christianity's veracity. The ritual of emerging from the altar with fire and giving it to everyone is one that is practised as the initial Paschal event in every single Orthodox parish on the planet, and the only special thing here is that it's said to happen in the Tomb of Christ in Jerusalem without human intervention (plus the other apparent miraculous properties that people who receive it have testified to experiencing).
#53JonWood007Posted 5/9/2013 11:06:01 AM
Chaos Scade posted...
From: JonWood007 | #047
^^Not necessarily. Seems to be the patriarchs putting on a show for the crowds. I'd love for Penn Jillette to tackle this, perhaps in one of his "Bull****" episodes. He is a magician after all, and very familiar with how stage tricks work.


I would actually welcome something like this, though given Penn Jillette's shallow understanding of the history of Christianity (I mean, Apollonius of Tyana? Really?), I can't say that I would expect too much from him in particular on anything to do with assessing religion.

Also, think about it, it didn't happen when the greek clergy weren't there. They were likely pulling the strings.


Do you think that's a problem for us (though I agree that it makes it unfalsifiable)? We wouldn't expect it to happen if the Eastern Orthodox clergy weren't there because we don't believe that the Latins or the Armenians are part of the Church and their episcopal orders are therefore illegitimate and the miracle will not occur in response to their prayers.


Okay, here's a question. Why does God perform this parlor trick regularly while ignoring so many other prayers out there? Surely there are many thing more important than lighting candles on fire every year?

This "miracle" existing doesn't fit with anything else I know about Christianity. Most people on here will actually tell me God doesn't like to do parlor tricks to prove himself. This seems very out of character to what else the Christian God seems to do and, more importantly, not do.

It really seems more likely to me it's a magic trick of some sort.
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#54Chaos ScadePosted 5/9/2013 11:19:01 AM(edited)
From: JonWood007 | #053
Okay, here's a question. Why does God perform this parlor trick regularly while ignoring so many other prayers out there? Surely there are many thing more important than lighting candles on fire every year?


I would assume that the answer would be because it's not merely a random parlor trick designed to wow an audience and "prove" Christianity's veracity as some sort of evidentiary tactic, but rather an honouring by God of one of His most holy sites - in this case, the Tomb of Jesus Christ.
#55CorporateKnightPosted 5/10/2013 10:40:38 PM
Heres a nice photo I found on fb

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=152454478268547&set=a.140819929432002.1073741828.133256373521691&type=1&theater
#56Moorish_IdolPosted 5/10/2013 10:43:17 PM
Well that's just a lawsuit waiting to happen.
#57JonWood007Posted 5/11/2013 9:30:34 AM
Chaos Scade posted...
From: JonWood007 | #053
Okay, here's a question. Why does God perform this parlor trick regularly while ignoring so many other prayers out there? Surely there are many thing more important than lighting candles on fire every year?


I would assume that the answer would be because it's not merely a random parlor trick designed to wow an audience and "prove" Christianity's veracity as some sort of evidentiary tactic, but rather an honouring by God of one of His most holy sites - in this case, the Tomb of Jesus Christ.


That's not really an answer to that question.
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#58CorporateKnightPosted 5/11/2013 3:26:30 PM
The Miracle of the Holy Light is a proof God sends to us to recognized His Church on Earth. It happened in the times of the Pentarchy and even when the Armenians where in communion with us. After both Rome and the Monophysits separated, all the Patriarchs of Jerusalem tried, Greeks, Latins and Armenians. Only the Greeks could which meant that their communion is Christ's Church.
#59Imperator420Posted 5/15/2013 10:10:44 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]