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After the reign of Pope Francis, Luis Antonio Tagle must become Pope.

#21DarkContractorPosted 5/16/2013 3:20:29 PM
From: Indori | #020
@DarkContractor

You ask for evidence that chastity will reduce HIV in Africa, yet post none that condoms will. You talk about condoms as though they're perfectly used by everyone, yet say that abstinence programs won't work because (I presume) no one can keep it in their pants.

Check out Uganda's stats. They instituted a combined program that they called the ABC approach: A for abstinence, B for be faithful, C for condoms. HIV prevalence decreased by about 80% over 20 years. Strangely, even when the focus shifted away from C and toward A & B due to American funding in 2003/2004.....well, I'd like to say that the HIV prevalence continued to decrease at the same rate. But it didn't. It went down faster from 2003 to 2008.

http://www.unaids.org/en/dataanalysis/knowyourresponse/countryprogressreports/2012countries/ce_UG_Narrative_Report%5B1%5D.pdf (See graph on page 6)

@Imperator420

lol ok



rofl, just proves you didnt read any of my links

Here they are again. Actually read my evidence before you tell me that I don't have evidence.

DarkContractor
A terribly leading question, no one says condoms are going to stop the AIDS epidemic because condoms is not a cure for AIDs, but it is a scientific fact that condoms reduce the likelihood of AIDs being transmitted during intercourse and that universal usage of condoms would hugely hamper the transmission of STIs. No single one thing will be the cure for AIDs; even if the current experiments that may yield a cure for AIDs turn out to actually yield that, the idea that the medicine will be equally and abundantly available everywhere to all social and economical classes of society is silly; condoms would in turn however reduce the risk of transmission and are much cheaper to manufacture than any medicinal cure we discover, and are much more practical.

Here's your articles on AIDs:

http://aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/prevention/reduce-your-risk/mixed-status-couples/
http://www.webmd.com/sex/safe-sex-preventing-hiv-aids-stds
http://www.scielosp.org/scielo.php?pid=S0042-96862004000600012&script=sci_arttext&tlng=pt
https://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3323101.html




http://www.unaids.org/en/dataanalysis/knowyourresponse/countryprogressreports/2012countries/ce_UG_Narrative_Report%5B1%5D.pdf


And then there's the INCREASE in AIDs because of more or less the same methodologies in the rest of Africa. Which you conveniently ignored. http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-107517312.html (that's another one of the links you ignored)
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"If God exists why did I stub my toe this morning?" - Me "Well If God doesnt exist how do we bacon CHECKMATE ATHEISTS" - TheRealJiraiya
#22IndoriPosted 5/16/2013 4:00:53 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#23IndoriPosted 5/17/2013 6:32:26 AM
Sorry, reading back over my last post, I decided that I reacted a little emotionally. I'll say that I'm getting a little frustrated, specifically at the following. In case I haven't made it clear in some way, I'll attempt to do so:

Specifically with regard to the last link you provided: I'm unable to read it. Can you post the text of it here, or a link to another site?

With regard to your other sources: All of these speak to the mechanical efficacy of condoms in limiting STI transmission, but that is not my beef. I concur with most scientists and most doctors and most of the world in believing that condoms reduce STI risk on an individual level.

That said, your links do not speak to the efficacy of condom promotion in limiting HIV prevalence in African nations. That's what I'm looking for. My point in this topic has been that condom promotion will not (on a macro level) significantly affect HIV prevalence. I've previously stated that condoms do not provide an incentive to engage in less promiscuous sexual activities, but there are other issues as well. Supply is the big one that comes to mind; providing enough condoms and distributing them in such a way to impact HIV prevalence may simply not be feasible.

So, if you can post something with regard to that, please do.
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Me? I'm the king of the twentieth century.
I'm the bogeyman. The villain.
#24Sepucher(Topic Creator)Posted 5/21/2013 8:11:44 PM
Stop derailing my topic!
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Living is in the way we die
#25GuideToTheDarkPosted 5/21/2013 8:25:37 PM
No, shush.

@Indori: My apologies, your wording threw me off. Any attempt at prevention is better than none, though.
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Before all else you must build muscle. Then you must become hero to children everywhere.
#26NoTitleRequiredPosted 5/23/2013 2:38:45 AM
lmao @ "nuns should have the option to marry". Do you even know what the definition of a monastic is?
#27Sepucher(Topic Creator)Posted 5/28/2013 4:42:56 PM
I will not have my topic hijacked!
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Living is in the way we die
#28DarkContractorPosted 5/29/2013 3:39:38 PM
Sorry, forgot about this topic.


With regard to your other sources: All of these speak to the mechanical efficacy of condoms in limiting STI transmission, but that is not my beef. I concur with most scientists and most doctors and most of the world in believing that condoms reduce STI risk on an individual level.


So far we have a very good, evidenced reason as to why we SHOULD promote the use of condomns.

That said, your links do not speak to the efficacy of condom promotion in limiting HIV prevalence in African nations. That's what I'm looking for. My point in this topic has been that condom promotion will not (on a macro level) significantly affect HIV prevalence. I've previously stated that condoms do not provide an incentive to engage in less promiscuous sexual activities, but there are other issues as well. Supply is the big one that comes to mind; providing enough condoms and distributing them in such a way to impact HIV prevalence may simply not be feasible.


Once again, I am not arguing condoms as the solution, but a part of. You are strawmanning my argument so you can take down the faulty premise that "Condoms can stop the AIDS epidemic!" which literally no one says.


http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-107517312.html -
.The tears of grief and calls for sainthood for John Paul have left scant room for mention of his most controversial position: his absolute opposition to the use of condoms to prevent the transmission of HIV, a stance that doctors and health activists say has led to countless deaths and millions of AIDS orphans in Africa and Latin America.

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"If God exists why did I stub my toe this morning?" - Me "Well If God doesnt exist how do we bacon CHECKMATE ATHEISTS" - TheRealJiraiya
#29IndoriPosted 5/30/2013 7:20:42 AM
You've provided no insight as to why condom use should be promoted and chastity should not. You've stated specifically that the mechanical efficacy of condoms is a good reason to promote them in developing nations. However, chastity is also mechanically perfect for preventing HIV transmission. I'll even quote one of your own sources:

What Is the Safest Sex?

The safest way to prevent HIV or STIs, of course, is abstinence, which is no sex at all.

http://www.webmd.com/sex/safe-sex-preventing-hiv-aids-stds

Thank you for posting the text of the Highbeam article, but it's basically hearsay. By the same token, I can state that cultural and community leaders say that the proliferation of condoms and other birth control methods is promoting dangerous behavior and aiding in the mass transmission of the disease (in fact, I think I have stated that previously).
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Me? I'm the king of the twentieth century.
I'm the bogeyman. The villain.
#30DarkContractorPosted 5/30/2013 4:59:47 PM
You've provided no insight as to why condom use should be promoted and chastity should not. You've stated specifically that the mechanical efficacy of condoms is a good reason to promote them in developing nations. However, chastity is also mechanically perfect for preventing HIV transmission. I'll even quote one of your own sources:


Because it's more practical.

The safest way to prevent HIV or STIs, of course, is abstinence, which is no sex at all.
http://www.webmd.com/sex/safe-sex-preventing-hiv-aids-stds


Which the Catholic Church tried. And failed. And made the problem worse.

Thank you for posting the text of the Highbeam article, but it's basically hearsay. By the same token, I can state that cultural and community leaders say that the proliferation of condoms and other birth control methods is promoting dangerous behavior and aiding in the mass transmission of the disease (in fact, I think I have stated that previously).



The rest of the article is members only, I'll copy and paste the rest of it. And you're welcome.

''I feel that it is our moral duty to allow condoms under the current circumstances, to prevent the transmission of a death-dealing virus,'' said Kevin Dowling, the archbishop of Rustenburg, South Africa, an impoverished diocese of miners and poor women who sell their bodies to feed their children, where HIV rates in prenatal clinics approach 50 percent. ''I stand in a corner with the most disadvantaged and vulnerable people on earth and they are being exposed to an appalling risk,'' the archbishop said in an interview this week, after John Paul's funeral. ''I see these young women and their babies, and the desperation and the suffering, and I think what would Jesus want? There's no way he could condemn someone like this.'' Although the South African Conference of Bishops has already rejected his position, he said, ''We hope that the cardinals are reflecting now on what kind of church we want to be and how we are responding to the problems of the modern world. I'm awaiting the first statements of the new pope, whoever it is.''International health officials, who have long clashed with the church over its no-condom policy, say they have seen hints of movement recently. While the church preaches abstinence as key to preventing the spread of AIDS, medical groups and governments worldwide regard condom use as the only method that reliably prevents sexual transmission of the virus.''We are now starting to see a lot of debates about condoms among the clergy,'' said Dr. Peter Piot, head of Unaids, noting that he was ''surprised'' this February to have been invited as the guest of honor at a Vatican conference on health care.Piot said there was no way to estimate how many people had become infected with HIV because of the Catholic prohibition on condom use. But, he said, ''When bishops in Latin America or Africa speak out against condoms, that must have a serious negative impact.''In much of the developing world, Catholic charities and local churches do the lion's share of HIV/AIDS work, from medical treatment to hospice care giving the Vatican a powerful forum for its views.Following John Paul's example, Catholic cardinals and bishops have spearheaded the worldwide fight against AIDS, promoting sympathy and understanding toward victims of the virus but also repeating the Vatican's conviction that condom use is immoral.Last year, a prominent cardinal announced that condoms would not prevent AIDS, because their pores were large enough to admit the AIDS virus a statement that earned the church harsh criticism from the United Nations because of its scientific inaccuracy.

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"If God exists why did I stub my toe this morning?" - Me "Well If God doesnt exist how do we bacon CHECKMATE ATHEISTS" - TheRealJiraiya