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How do you remove all religion from your brain and become an atheist?

#31kts123Posted 5/21/2013 1:56:30 PM(edited)
Moorish_Idol posted...
kts123 posted...
Well the good news is it sounds like you weren't close to God to begin with, so maybe this crises of your already fake faith can eventually lead you to getting your faith right.

Darn, we were going so long without a "You weren't a true Christian to begin with" accusation.



I'm sure even you can agree the whole "be good out of fear of hell" is messed up.
#32Wandering__HeroPosted 5/21/2013 2:53:39 PM
Moorish_Idol posted...
kts123 posted...
Well the good news is it sounds like you weren't close to God to begin with, so maybe this crises of your already fake faith can eventually lead you to getting your faith right.

Darn, we were going so long without a "You weren't a true Christian to begin with" accusation.


But without LMS (at least without an OPEN LMS) SOMEONE has to say it.

Anyway I'd say the inverse, the fact you can't let go means you definitely were a Christian but it might also mean you can't be a true Atheist as you'd felt some presence of God.

I went through this and I can't garuntee your experiences are/will be exactly the same. I got frustrated with some of the pointless rituals (WHATS THE DAM POINT OF THE ROSARY?!), droning recited prayers (doesn't that contradict the bible?), hypocrisy of many religious people and how I often couldn't feel Jesus in my life.

I tried to reach Atheism and I couldn't, and I couldn't discard all the morals, because quite honestly most of them are pretty good when you get down to it. Even turning the other cheek has a certain practical value (though it doesn't quite mean what people think it might mean on a first glance..).

So audit your life and what you've been taught. Think about what works and what doesn't. Think about the things you've been taught and WHY you've been taught them. If theirs a good reason for why certain things are taboo or discouraged, so be it. If other stuff is nonsensical and meaningless, disregard it.

And if your not sure about God, clear, your mental baggage, and forgot just reciting some verse, and open your mind and heart to whatever's out there, sharing your thoughts and feelings before him/it and see what you get. If you feel nothing, maybe you can call yourself an atheist. If you feel something, be brave and your spiritual life could get one heck of a resurgence.

Or just be an Agonostic.
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#33Moorish_IdolPosted 5/21/2013 3:07:59 PM(edited)
kts123 posted...
Moorish_Idol posted...
kts123 posted...
Well the good news is it sounds like you weren't close to God to begin with, so maybe this crises of your already fake faith can eventually lead you to getting your faith right.

Darn, we were going so long without a "You weren't a true Christian to begin with" accusation.



I'm sure even you can agree the whole "be good out of fear of hell" is messed up.

It's not messed up. A lot of people use fear of hell and/or fear of judgement as a reason to worship or as the reason to not be bad. I'm not convinced that is the TC's sole struggle anyway. He was pointing it out as one of many things causing him to resist deconversion.

Saying things that imply he never truly believed, or he never had enough faith, will only push him further away from the religion. Time and time again deconverts say that claims like those were insulting, yet time and time again Christians keep saying them. Even if that is what you believe, hold your tongue. It's not beneficial.

Also what do you mean by "even you"?
#34kts123Posted 5/22/2013 11:54:05 AM
It's not messed up. A lot of people use fear of hell and/or fear of judgement as a reason to worship or as the reason to not be bad. I'm not convinced that is the TC's sole struggle anyway. He was pointing it out as one of many things causing him to resist deconversion.

Saying things that imply he never truly believed, or he never had enough faith, will only push him further away from the religion. Time and time again deconverts say that claims like those were insulting, yet time and time again Christians keep saying them. Even if that is what you believe, hold your tongue. It's not beneficial.

Also what do you mean by "even you"?


You genuinely don't see a problem with threats of hell fire being your sole motivation to be good? I think A Clock Work Orange (the book, not the horrible excuse for a movie) addressed this pretty well.

And don't confuse what I said with a close cousin of what I said, the old "you're just rebelling against God" bit. In fact I didn't even imply his doubts are him "rebelling against God," I said they very well may be from God. God corrects those He loves, so if God is doing a work in the TC that is a wholly positive thing. There's no reason to get offended over that. Now what I am doing is questioning his current idea of who God is. After all, Paul who knew Jesus was willing to give up his very salvation to save others. That very clearly shows his motivation to do good was not "fear of hell," since it's hell itself he was willing to drink for the sake of his brothers.
#35DarkContractorPosted 5/22/2013 6:37:38 PM
for all the preaching on intellectual humility and and no true certainty Christians here like to play when ever they get bombarded with facts, you guys sure do like to pretend it's an objective fact that he was in some sort of fake/lukewarm relationship with God when you have a very small snippet of his life with such an incredibly small perspective. Tunnel vision blocking out the fact that you have tunnel vision. IROOOOOOOONY.

What's so annoying about the no true scotsmen is we're having this experience and we're not sure if it's God or not and we're really not sure what to think, for some of us it was a very interesting, often times incredible journey but we're genuinely skeptical. And then you guys come along and basically **** on it completely for us "Nope, it wasnt God, and you just werent really looking to please God, also your new worldview is just as fallicious. repent, or burn, etc."


Ge the rose tinted glasses off long enough to remember that there's always the possibility that God doesn't exist. Oh I know, you're 100% confident. Big ****ing whoop. People just as confident for longer times have de-converted before. Get over it.
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"If God exists why did I stub my toe this morning?" - Me "Well If God doesnt exist how do we bacon CHECKMATE ATHEISTS" - TheRealJiraiya
#36kts123Posted 5/23/2013 7:00:53 AM(edited)
DarkContractor posted...
for all the preaching on intellectual humility and and no true certainty Christians here like to play when ever they get bombarded with facts, you guys sure do like to pretend it's an objective fact that he was in some sort of fake/lukewarm relationship with God when you have a very small snippet of his life with such an incredibly small perspective. Tunnel vision blocking out the fact that you have tunnel vision. IROOOOOOOONY.

What's so annoying about the no true scotsmen is we're having this experience and we're not sure if it's God or not and we're really not sure what to think, for some of us it was a very interesting, often times incredible journey but we're genuinely skeptical. And then you guys come along and basically **** on it completely for us "Nope, it wasnt God, and you just werent really looking to please God, also your new worldview is just as fallicious. repent, or burn, etc."


Ge the rose tinted glasses off long enough to remember that there's always the possibility that God doesn't exist. Oh I know, you're 100% confident. Big ****ing whoop. People just as confident for longer times have de-converted before. Get over it.



I was an atheist for six years, and I had more than my fair share of experience with the things Christians say and accuse atheists of. So now you need to get something straight. Not all Christians are wearing rose tinted glasses, and you're not the only one who doubts. Every Christian I have ever met has doubted God -- whether or not they want to admit it. You think we don't have doubts? We do. Immediately the boy's father exclaimed, "I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!" [Mark 9:24.] This man was talking straight to Jesus' face and he doubted, you think those of us who haven't seen are going to faire better? My dad, who has read the Bible cover to cover more times than anyone I have ever met, has expressed his doubts to me.

And lets not play the "you don't know me!" game. One tiny piece of information about a person can reveal a great deal. For example, when someone parades around saying "I'm an expert on Evolution, but I just can't figure out how monkeys still exist if we evolved from them." Well, sorry, BUZZ, we now know you haven't really studied evolution.
#37Hustle KongPosted 5/23/2013 1:46:21 PM
So audit your life and what you've been taught.


This, one hundred per cent. Not only what you've been taught, but constantly audit what you think up yourself.

And has already been said, worry more about being true to yourself and the world than being a theist or an atheist.
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#38DarkContractorPosted 5/23/2013 3:15:05 PM
From: kts123 | #036
DarkContractor posted...
for all the preaching on intellectual humility and and no true certainty Christians here like to play when ever they get bombarded with facts, you guys sure do like to pretend it's an objective fact that he was in some sort of fake/lukewarm relationship with God when you have a very small snippet of his life with such an incredibly small perspective. Tunnel vision blocking out the fact that you have tunnel vision. IROOOOOOOONY.

What's so annoying about the no true scotsmen is we're having this experience and we're not sure if it's God or not and we're really not sure what to think, for some of us it was a very interesting, often times incredible journey but we're genuinely skeptical. And then you guys come along and basically **** on it completely for us "Nope, it wasnt God, and you just werent really looking to please God, also your new worldview is just as fallicious. repent, or burn, etc."


Ge the rose tinted glasses off long enough to remember that there's always the possibility that God doesn't exist. Oh I know, you're 100% confident. Big ****ing whoop. People just as confident for longer times have de-converted before. Get over it.



I was an atheist for six years, and I had more than my fair share of experience with the things Christians say and accuse atheists of. So now you need to get something straight. Not all Christians are wearing rose tinted glasses, and you're not the only one who doubts. Every Christian I have ever met has doubted God -- whether or not they want to admit it. You think we don't have doubts? We do. Immediately the boy's father exclaimed, "I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!" [Mark 9:24.] This man was talking straight to Jesus' face and he doubted, you think those of us who haven't seen are going to faire better? My dad, who has read the Bible cover to cover more times than anyone I have ever met, has expressed his doubts to me.


None of this is remotely relevant. In fact, now you're admitting that doubts can be subjective regardless of perspective, so to no true scotsmen someone just because they doubted more than you did is ridiculous. We did go through "Help my unbelief". I pretty much spent a month, usually in tearful prayers, begging God to help me out, I wanted to really feel like I was in a relationship with him. I read the Bible constantly searching for an answer. I didn't get one.

Also, I like how you're assuming every Christian doubts when it seems in the same breath that you think the people who don't doubt are reluctant to admit it.

And lets not play the "you don't know me!" game. One tiny piece of information about a person can reveal a great deal. For example, when someone parades around saying "I'm an expert on Evolution, but I just can't figure out how monkeys still exist if we evolved from them." Well, sorry, BUZZ, we now know you haven't really studied evolution.


And we know someone was never really 'saved' in the first place (assuming salvation is a thing, I'd ask for evidence but last time you did you accused me of rationalizing it away before I had something to rationalize, lulz), because they say they've reached a point where they feel like they follow God because of fear of Hell?

Yeah huh.
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"If God exists why did I stub my toe this morning?" - Me "Well If God doesnt exist how do we bacon CHECKMATE ATHEISTS" - TheRealJiraiya
#39Polish_CrusaderPosted 5/23/2013 3:45:43 PM
The TC still has not explained why he wants to remove any feeling or thought of god from his life.
#40DarkContractorPosted 5/23/2013 3:59:49 PM
From: Polish_Crusader | #039
The TC still has not explained why he wants to remove any feeling or thought of god from his life.


from the opening post


Even though I don't have a strong desire to go to church. I regularly doubt the existence of God. I no longer want to feel the sense of compunction when I do things that are strictly prohibited in the Bible. I'm tired of only believing that God exists because I don't want to incur His wrath, and be damned eternally to hell. And I'm tired of trying to grow spiritually in a God that I can't see. Despite this, I still can't manage to completely break free from this albatross because my mother has warped my conscience over the years by forcing her morality on me. Even when she's not around me, I still feel guilty when I consider doing things I know she doesn't approve of.

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"If God exists why did I stub my toe this morning?" - Me "Well If God doesnt exist how do we bacon CHECKMATE ATHEISTS" - TheRealJiraiya