This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

It seems illogical to me to criticize any religion's god based on its morality

#221bratt100Posted 6/11/2013 11:38:50 PM
Dathrowed1 posted...
bratt100 posted...
I got it from myself.

Being special and needed are the bases of people such as yourself trying to seperate themselves from nature. You would rather be chosen then just a part of nature.

Now I need to ask why you think my comment was ironic. We are primates, that's it. You are not some chosen group who god personally selected. YOU ARE AN APE. Everything you feel comes from that and there is nothing wrong with that.


Then I see no reason to put any stock into that statement.

such as myself? Did I ever say I was needed and special? No, you just put words in my mouth and knocked over a strawman.

A lesson in humility coming from you is ironic.


You see no reason to put stock in something when that thing is original? Do you ever think for yourself or do you just regurgitate whatever is told to you?l

Yes, yourself. You hold yourself above them if you are a Christian, for the bible tells you so. Do you believe you are not an animal? If so you elevate yourself.

About humility. We're is the irony when the statement comes from myself? I'm the person who said that my beliefs shouldn't make laws.
---
"If the victim was a mute, then she shouldn't really be out alone."- OrangeWizard on rape
#222OrangeWizardPosted 6/12/2013 7:35:52 AM
From: bratt100 | #221
You see no reason to put stock in something when that thing is original?


You think "Because bratt says so" is enough reason to get people to put stock in what you say?
---
Trolling and making valid arguments are not mutually exclusive
#223Faust_8Posted 6/12/2013 10:55:34 AM
OrangeWizard posted...
From: bratt100 | #221
You see no reason to put stock in something when that thing is original?


You think "Because bratt says so" is enough reason to get people to put stock in what you say?


Irony.
---
Faust_8: Would you own slaves if you could?
OW: If I lived on a farm or something, sure. But I have no need of slaves right now.
#224OrangeWizardPosted 6/12/2013 1:31:23 PM
From: Faust_8 | #223
OrangeWizard posted...
From: bratt100 | #221
You see no reason to put stock in something when that thing is original?


You think "Because bratt says so" is enough reason to get people to put stock in what you say?


Irony.


No it isn't.

But would you like to quote me backing up a point with "because I say so?"
---
Trolling and making valid arguments are not mutually exclusive
#225Faust_8Posted 6/12/2013 1:34:52 PM
Can you quote bratt as saying "because I say so?"
---
Faust_8: Would you own slaves if you could?
OW: If I lived on a farm or something, sure. But I have no need of slaves right now.
#226OrangeWizardPosted 6/12/2013 3:19:20 PM
When he made up his quote, and then was asked where he got it from, he said himself.
When the reply came back "I see no reason to put stock in it just because YOU said it", he said this:

From: bratt100 | #221
You see no reason to put stock in something when that thing is original?


Which, considering the context, is pretty much "because I say so" with a side portion of reversing the burden of proof.
---
Trolling and making valid arguments are not mutually exclusive
#227ThuggernautzPosted 6/13/2013 10:51:02 AM
C_Mat posted...

I'm sorry for being condescending last night. But I feel like you asked a really dumb question. I don't need to provide evidence that humans were invented for a purpose to make the point that morality can't exist unless humans have a purpose. The analogy already applies to humans without me needing to add anything to it for you.

As a Christian, I believe that humans were created with a purpose. An atheist does not believe humans were created with a purpose. Therefore, Christians have ground to stand on when they make moral claims about someone's actions. An atheist does not.


No, I don't think it does, and you have yet to show it does. You want a basal purpose for humanity? To survive. Such is the same with all forms of life, and why other species can show traits that we would think of as being moral (social groups with rules, altruism etc).

Similarly, secular humans DO have ground to stand on when making moral claims, as there is absolutely nothing in the definition of morality which requires an objective standard, nor a God to arbitrate. When we look back through history about different groups believing certain actions were 'right' and moral, such as animal sacrifice in the precursor to your religion, this is parsed much more easily, with less and provable assumptions with the explanation that morality is a communal subjective ideal like beauty. We have precedent for this.


If everyone can choose their own purpose and standards, then how could you ever call another person's actions wrong? Yes, some people have done a good job choosing their own purpose, some have not. If someone decides his purpose is to be a rapist or thief, how can you say anything against them? I'm not responding to you anymore if you don't answer this question, since you already ignored the last post I directed toward you two pages ago.


Jesus ****ing Christ. How many times must this be explained to you? Are you incapable of recognizing that you live in a society, in civilization? That humans not only are capable of, but are biologically inclined to make social decisions and work in groups, following group rules? If you were to stand in the middle of the street right now and slit a goat's neck, and burn it on an altar, you might be following OT rules because “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness” (Hebrews 9:22), but you would also probably be thrown in jail for animal cruelty. Why is that? Because morality changes, in the same way that perception of beauty does.
#228bratt100Posted 6/13/2013 5:19:10 PM
OrangeWizard posted...
When he made up his quote, and then was asked where he got it from, he said himself.
When the reply came back "I see no reason to put stock in it just because YOU said it", he said this:

From: bratt100 | #221
You see no reason to put stock in something when that thing is original?


Which, considering the context, is pretty much "because I say so" with a side portion of reversing the burden of proof.


It's like you just need to hear the same thing regurgitated over and over again before you actually think about what is said. You can determine the validity of the quote but try your best to do it based on its value not on your own perceptions of me. I did this yesterday when I admitted I jumped to conclusions with you and apologized, you simply went on your merry way acting like a dolt.

I see you as blind and a fool in many cases, is this true? Perhaps. Do I believe I should have control over others beliefs? Nope. Do I judge their beliefs based on my own standards? Yes. Do I expect you to judge those on the same standards? I hope you would but I don't expect you can.
---
"If the victim was a mute, then she shouldn't really be out alone."- OrangeWizard on rape
#229OrangeWizardPosted 6/13/2013 5:30:14 PM
From: bratt100 | #228
You can determine the validity of the quote but try your best to do it based on its value not on your own perceptions of me.


He did. And he said it's not worth considering. Not because it's "original". Not because it came from you, but because there's no reason to consider it.
---
Trolling and making valid arguments are not mutually exclusive
#230kirsybuuPosted 6/13/2013 8:18:24 PM
C_Mat posted...
You have to draw the line somewhere if you have any kind of worldview. If you're a theist, then it would seem to make sense to draw the line at God. If you're a non-theist, you're at a major disadvantage when it comes to debates about morality and the meaning of life.


As I've been saying, basing your morality on a god isn't any more "advantageous" than basing it on a taco. If there is a single, correct morality, then it is independent of any deity you can dream up, and you can't call yourself a moral person by simply following the commands of one.
---
"sabe que no puede resistir mis encantos sensuales." ~ Poolshark128