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Brain biochemistry may directly disprove religion (as we know it).

#1IcyGuy05Posted 6/14/2013 4:36:27 PM(edited)
It was proven that thoughts and emotions are the result of chemical reactions happening on the brain. Hormones and electrical impulses cause each and every thought and behavior you do. If you see a door and think "I'll open it", that's just a chemical reaction; if someone makes you angry, that anger is actually just some chain reactions happening in your brain. There's no argument here, right? Here comes the interesting part:

If that's true, none of your actions were then made out of free will. That means each and every decision you took in your entire life was the result of some chemical reaction. Each and every one. You decided your breakfast because of some thought caused by a chemical reaction; you decided to study in that college because of some thoughts caused by chemicals reactions; you decided to commit or not an immoral or criminal act because of some chemical reaction that happened in your brain. We're in nature just beings more complex than current computers.

This idea takes away the very principle of free will. As much as it seems to us that every action we take is voluntary, that couldn't be farther than the truth. It's all an extension on how substances interact with each other; the very principle that allows your videogame console to read and process data.

Now, if nothing we're actually doing was of our choosing, we can't therefore be judged by our actions by a divine being upon death, since nothing we did was actually out of free will, but that of mere chemical reactions going on inside our brains. We can't be codenmned to an eternity of pleasure, suffering or reincarnation because some chemical reactions made us commit murders or help those in need. At least not by a benevolent, divine being or a karma-based concept.

The very nature of our brains therefore directly disprove the beliefs of religion as we know it, since its based on rewarding or punishing your actions upon death. This includes Christianity Judaism, Islam and Buddhism.

This realization has actually made me undergo a life crisis several years ago. And I've been trying to find reasoning flaws about it ever since. This is why I'm making this topic here, considering this board is all about religious debate.
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#2SirThinkALotPosted 6/14/2013 4:53:59 PM
To be honest, I dont think we really know the extent to which our brain chemistry effects our thoughts and vice-versa.

The biggest problem I have with the claim that we dont have free will is that people who make this claim dont act like its true. That is, they still act like they make choices and they still act like those choices are actually meaningful(not simply the result of chemical reactions). If somebody does something obviously wrong(say, raping and murdering a 6 year old girl), they dont say 'well you cant blame him, he's just doing what his brain chemistry says.' It seems to me that, regardless of whether we 'really' have free will or not, we should assume we do. Otherwise theres a major inconsistency between what we claim to be true, and what we act like is true.
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#3IcyGuy05(Topic Creator)Posted 6/14/2013 5:00:24 PM
SirThinkALot posted...
To be honest, I dont think we really know the extent to which our brain chemistry effects our thoughts and vice-versa.

The biggest problem I have with the claim that we dont have free will is that people who make this claim dont act like its true. That is, they still act like they make choices and they still act like those choices are actually meaningful(not simply the result of chemical reactions). If somebody does something obviously wrong(say, raping and murdering a 6 year old girl), they dont say 'well you cant blame him, he's just doing what his brain chemistry says.' It seems to me that, regardless of whether we 'really' have free will or not, we should assume we do. Otherwise theres a major inconsistency between what we claim to be true, and what we act like is true.


That's not really an inconsistency. Chemical reactions allowed us to deduct we don't have free will, and chemical reactions make us act the way we do. It's all caused by the same thing.
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#4SirThinkALotPosted 6/14/2013 5:04:19 PM(edited)
IcyGuy05 posted...
SirThinkALot posted...
To be honest, I dont think we really know the extent to which our brain chemistry effects our thoughts and vice-versa.

The biggest problem I have with the claim that we dont have free will is that people who make this claim dont act like its true. That is, they still act like they make choices and they still act like those choices are actually meaningful(not simply the result of chemical reactions). If somebody does something obviously wrong(say, raping and murdering a 6 year old girl), they dont say 'well you cant blame him, he's just doing what his brain chemistry says.' It seems to me that, regardless of whether we 'really' have free will or not, we should assume we do. Otherwise theres a major inconsistency between what we claim to be true, and what we act like is true.


That's not really an inconsistency. Chemical reactions allowed us to deduct we don't have free will, and chemical reactions make us act the way we do. It's all caused by the same thing.


So our brain chemicals are telling us to think one way and act a totally different way? And indeed it IS inconsistent, regardless of what the cause is.
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#5rick alveradoPosted 6/14/2013 5:14:44 PM
A lack of free will does not disprove religion. It may disprove certain religions, but there are religions that do not require free will, and I'm sure there are even some that state we don't have free will, although I don't know of any examples.
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#6SirThinkALotPosted 6/14/2013 5:15:31 PM
rick alverado posted...
A lack of free will does not disprove religion. It may disprove certain religions, but there are religions that do not require free will, and I'm sure there are even some that state we don't have free will, although I don't know of any examples.


Calvinism. Or at least some strains of it.
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#7IcyGuy05(Topic Creator)Posted 6/14/2013 5:20:56 PM
SirThinkALot posted...
IcyGuy05 posted...
SirThinkALot posted...
To be honest, I dont think we really know the extent to which our brain chemistry effects our thoughts and vice-versa.

The biggest problem I have with the claim that we dont have free will is that people who make this claim dont act like its true. That is, they still act like they make choices and they still act like those choices are actually meaningful(not simply the result of chemical reactions). If somebody does something obviously wrong(say, raping and murdering a 6 year old girl), they dont say 'well you cant blame him, he's just doing what his brain chemistry says.' It seems to me that, regardless of whether we 'really' have free will or not, we should assume we do. Otherwise theres a major inconsistency between what we claim to be true, and what we act like is true.


That's not really an inconsistency. Chemical reactions allowed us to deduct we don't have free will, and chemical reactions make us act the way we do. It's all caused by the same thing.


So our brain chemicals are telling us to think one way and act a totally different way? And indeed it IS inconsistent, regardless of what the cause is.


Nope. Our brain is telling us to think this way, but remember it's not tthe only thought and emotion up there. You may know you lack free will, but other ideas in there may also tell you to not take it that seriosly; you forget when doing other activities; etc. There's no contradiction there.
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#8IcyGuy05(Topic Creator)Posted 6/14/2013 5:22:41 PM
rick alverado posted...
A lack of free will does not disprove religion. It may disprove certain religions, but there are religions that do not require free will, and I'm sure there are even some that state we don't have free will, although I don't know of any examples.


Maybe there are a few that would survive, sure, but this still disproves pretty much any major religion.
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#9SirThinkALotPosted 6/14/2013 5:27:35 PM
IcyGuy05 posted...
SirThinkALot posted...
IcyGuy05 posted...
SirThinkALot posted...
To be honest, I dont think we really know the extent to which our brain chemistry effects our thoughts and vice-versa.

The biggest problem I have with the claim that we dont have free will is that people who make this claim dont act like its true. That is, they still act like they make choices and they still act like those choices are actually meaningful(not simply the result of chemical reactions). If somebody does something obviously wrong(say, raping and murdering a 6 year old girl), they dont say 'well you cant blame him, he's just doing what his brain chemistry says.' It seems to me that, regardless of whether we 'really' have free will or not, we should assume we do. Otherwise theres a major inconsistency between what we claim to be true, and what we act like is true.


That's not really an inconsistency. Chemical reactions allowed us to deduct we don't have free will, and chemical reactions make us act the way we do. It's all caused by the same thing.


So our brain chemicals are telling us to think one way and act a totally different way? And indeed it IS inconsistent, regardless of what the cause is.


Nope. Our brain is telling us to think this way, but remember it's not tthe only thought and emotion up there. You may know you lack free will, but other ideas in there may also tell you to not take it that seriosly; you forget when doing other activities; etc. There's no contradiction there.


I never said contradiction. I said there is an inconsistency between our thoughts and actions. If you can live with that, more power to you. But my brain chemistry is telling me to keep my beliefs, thoughts and actions as consistent as possible
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#10IcyGuy05(Topic Creator)Posted 6/14/2013 5:31:51 PM
SirThinkALot posted...
IcyGuy05 posted...
SirThinkALot posted...
IcyGuy05 posted...
SirThinkALot posted...
To be honest, I dont think we really know the extent to which our brain chemistry effects our thoughts and vice-versa.

The biggest problem I have with the claim that we dont have free will is that people who make this claim dont act like its true. That is, they still act like they make choices and they still act like those choices are actually meaningful(not simply the result of chemical reactions). If somebody does something obviously wrong(say, raping and murdering a 6 year old girl), they dont say 'well you cant blame him, he's just doing what his brain chemistry says.' It seems to me that, regardless of whether we 'really' have free will or not, we should assume we do. Otherwise theres a major inconsistency between what we claim to be true, and what we act like is true.


That's not really an inconsistency. Chemical reactions allowed us to deduct we don't have free will, and chemical reactions make us act the way we do. It's all caused by the same thing.


So our brain chemicals are telling us to think one way and act a totally different way? And indeed it IS inconsistent, regardless of what the cause is.


Nope. Our brain is telling us to think this way, but remember it's not tthe only thought and emotion up there. You may know you lack free will, but other ideas in there may also tell you to not take it that seriosly; you forget when doing other activities; etc. There's no contradiction there.


I never said contradiction. I said there is an inconsistency between our thoughts and actions. If you can live with that, more power to you. But my brain chemistry is telling me to keep my beliefs, thoughts and actions as consistent as possible


Never said I wanted you to drop your beliefs or anything. But it's still pretty contradictory evidence and I'll I'm trying to find is a refutal or counterargument, as it'd be pretty sad if this actually proves that we don't have neither a free will nor a reward after death for those that did good while in life.
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