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Pro-choice advocates allegedly chant "Hail Satan" to drown out "Amazing Grace"

#51Hustle KongPosted 7/3/2013 7:48:15 PM
Should stupid mistakes force someone to be burdened with something they don't want?


If I jump off of a roof, should I be burdened with the unwanted consequences of hitting the ground?

People need to wise the **** up and realize that "consequence-free sex" is just Russian roullette.
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#52KimimaroPosted 7/3/2013 7:57:36 PM
Suibom posted...
Kimimaro posted...
Until a fetus can reasonably exist independently from the mother (which I believe is the normal cutoff), it is something akin to a parasite without any rights. While it has the potential to develop into a full human being, the host should have the right to remove it if they don't want it. People's personal views should not require them to be burdened with something they don't want. While I do agree that many abortions are made up of selfish people without good judgement, that is their right, and those should not reflect on the people who do it for "proper" reasons.


But it IS a human.

You say "develop into a full human" as if babies are fully developed humans. They're not. An adult who has passed through puberty and who has stopped developing both in body and mind is a "full human". Even early 20 year olds aren't fully developed humans.

Development is the cop-out, the excuse used to rob humans of their right to live so that other humans may legally kill them.

If it cannot exist without the mother and has no capability to have a sense of self, feelings, or anything of the sort, it is not a human. It is a potential human, but it is entirely different from the process of growing up. Forcing stupid teens to carry out such unwanted thing over a stupid mistake (Yes, teens are stupid. More news at 11.) and possibly ruin their lives because of the views of others is silly. Those who use it solely as a form of birth control without thinking of the consequences are morons, but that should not dictate the choices of everyone else.
#53SuibomPosted 7/3/2013 8:15:47 PM
Kimimaro posted...
Suibom posted...
Kimimaro posted...
Until a fetus can reasonably exist independently from the mother (which I believe is the normal cutoff), it is something akin to a parasite without any rights. While it has the potential to develop into a full human being, the host should have the right to remove it if they don't want it. People's personal views should not require them to be burdened with something they don't want. While I do agree that many abortions are made up of selfish people without good judgement, that is their right, and those should not reflect on the people who do it for "proper" reasons.


But it IS a human.

You say "develop into a full human" as if babies are fully developed humans. They're not. An adult who has passed through puberty and who has stopped developing both in body and mind is a "full human". Even early 20 year olds aren't fully developed humans.

Development is the cop-out, the excuse used to rob humans of their right to live so that other humans may legally kill them.

If it cannot exist without the mother and has no capability to have a sense of self, feelings, or anything of the sort, it is not a human. It is a potential human, but it is entirely different from the process of growing up. Forcing stupid teens to carry out such unwanted thing over a stupid mistake (Yes, teens are stupid. More news at 11.) and possibly ruin their lives because of the views of others is silly. Those who use it solely as a form of birth control without thinking of the consequences are morons, but that should not dictate the choices of everyone else.


Does a fetus have a human heart? A human brain? Human lungs? Human bones?

That's a very convenient bequeathing of humanity you bestow upon those that pass from the uterus into the world.
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"Indeed these are the mere edges of His ways, and how small a whisper we hear of Him!
But the thunder of His power who can understand." - Job 24:14
#54KimimaroPosted 7/3/2013 8:21:13 PM
Brain function is the only thing that matters. If it can reasonably function and exist without the mother, which I believe is the general cutoff time for abortions unless I'm misremembering, it can be classified as human. Giving a bundle of tissue without any sense of self undeniable rights to exist over the happiness of the parent(s) is just asinine to me.
#55SuibomPosted 7/3/2013 8:25:30 PM
So you're saying that a human without brain function doesn't possess human parts?
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"Indeed these are the mere edges of His ways, and how small a whisper we hear of Him!
But the thunder of His power who can understand." - Job 24:14
#56KimimaroPosted 7/3/2013 8:32:07 PM
Humans without brain function are no longer human. Humans are brains. The rest of the body is a means for the brain to function and survive. If you could hook a brain up to a toaster and have it function, it would be more human than a fetus in development.
#57SuibomPosted 7/3/2013 8:39:52 PM
So I'm clear...

If a human body was found dead in your trunk, your line of defense would be something to the tune of "Officer, I don't see what the problem is. That is most definitely not a human."
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"Indeed these are the mere edges of His ways, and how small a whisper we hear of Him!
But the thunder of His power who can understand." - Job 24:14
#58KimimaroPosted 7/3/2013 8:44:49 PM
How does that have anything to do with anything? Are you just screwing around by playing with words, or is there some point to that?
#59JonWood007Posted 7/3/2013 8:47:20 PM
So for vanity's sake, denying a human the right to live is acceptable? For looks?

Pardon me, human life, your "mother" is worried about stretch marks so... Don't take this too hard. It's not you, it's her.

Vanity is not a case strong enough to warrant robbing a human of their right to live.


It is when the fetus in question has the intellectual abilities of a potato.

And thats another thing. The whole debate on "does the baby/fetus feel anything does it want to be killed"? Thats about as dumb as saying people who are mutes (unable to talk) and/or retards who cant express themselves should die because they cannot say this or that or are unable to communicate that they want to live. Kinda like how the govt. forced that girl terry shiavo to starve to death.


In a way it is like Terri Schiavo.....but Terri was freaking braindead. They did an autopsy on here and there's no way she would've recovered, and she really had no mind left....she was basically effectively dead already. I honestly see abortion as no different as swatting a fly, in the early/acceptable stages, tbqh.

The thing is, a fetus is unlike the brain dead in even more ways. First of all, braindead are not living off of your body. They do not function as parasites. Fetuses do, so their presence has a direct impact on your well being. Second, a fetus never was never a sentient being. I think there's the difference between pulling the plug on a person who has lived and has an identity and a possibility of recovering from their condition, and aborting someone who has yet to truly exist. Fetuses has not truly lived, they have no identity, no personality, nothing. They have more in common with potatos and other lower level organisms than they do with human beings. A woman's right is more important in this case.


Again, saying a fetus is not a human life is like saying you are not a human life because you all were once a fetus. A sperm does not become a human life, nor does a egg. Only a fertilized egg with sperm in it becomes a human life. The biggest difference between a fetus and our bodies now is time to develop and number of cells. Its like comparing a little 2 year old to me (26, 6'4", 235 lbs.). Kids have a lot less cells than i do, exclusively because of age. Do kids have the right to live? Ofcouse. Does a fetus have a right to live? ofcourse.


While true in a way, a fetus has no characteristics to make it a "person'. The question isn't whether it's a life. A bacteria is a life. Does that mean it should be protected? Heck no. A literal clump of cells with no ability to feel pain, no reasoning abilities, and no personality should NOT be granted preference over a full grown woman. You seem to be confusing the right to life as an absolute. It's not when there are competing priorities in place. The question is "why should we afford this clump of cells the same rights as a born human?" And for the first and second trimesters, you can't. There's no viability, and no sentience, no feeling of pain. Those are my three criteria for when a fetus is now no different from a newborn. You guys seem to be trying to emphasize with this fetus, like it's human like you. In the types of abortions im talking about, you can't emphasize. There's nothing to empathize with. If you give it time there will be, but not at that stage in development. It's like playing C&C. If you start building a structure or a unit, but cancel it before it's done, no harm is done. It's not really a unit, or a structure until it's done. Until then, it's under construction. A fetus is a human under construction, not fit to be given full personhood rights. I'm sorry, the mother has more rights than a fetus can in its state.
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#60SuibomPosted 7/3/2013 8:57:46 PM
Kimimaro posted...
How does that have anything to do with anything? Are you just screwing around by playing with words, or is there some point to that?


I'm definitely not screwing around.

And Jon, this is why I don't think we'll ever come to any kind of middle ground. You define a human by what they can or can't do. I define them by what they are. A human is a human with human parts from developing fetus to baby to teenager to adult to dying old man. At every stage, regardless of developmental level or capabilities, they are human. And humans deserve the right to live. It's one of those "inalienable rights" the Declaration of Independence we're about to celebrate tomorrow refers to. Abortion robs a human of not only life, but liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
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"Indeed these are the mere edges of His ways, and how small a whisper we hear of Him!
But the thunder of His power who can understand." - Job 24:14