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What are the subtle Jesus references in the OT?

#1_Rasl3rX_Posted 7/16/2013 1:52:43 PM
I hear people make this argument all the time, "The OT has all sorts of hidden Jesus references!" But I never see any examples, just books to read about it (which I do like to use this board as a place to find book recommendations, I recommend many myself, but accompany these reccomendations with examples or something. Sheesh!)

I was wondering if you guys could elaborate, just post a passage, explain to me why it's a Jesus passage. thanks.
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DarkContractor
#2SuibomPosted 7/16/2013 2:08:13 PM
"Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, There is no beauty that we should desire Him. He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment,

And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken. And they made His grave with the wickedó But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was any deceit in His mouth.

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand. He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities.

Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors." (Isaiah 53:1-12 NKJV)
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"Indeed these are the mere edges of His ways, and how small a whisper we hear of Him!
But the thunder of His power who can understand." - Job 24:14
#3FlashOfLightPosted 7/16/2013 2:26:53 PM
To add to what Suibom said, and why there is no excuse for modern Jewish practioners to not believe in Jesus Christ as that one that was promised -

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Isaiah 11:12

"And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."

Isaiah 9:6-7

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."
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Genesis 49:8-10

"Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.

Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be."
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1Chronicles 17:11-14

"And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom.

He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.

I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:

But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore."
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#4_Rasl3rX_(Topic Creator)Posted 7/16/2013 3:52:22 PM
Can you guys provide commentary as to your Jesus-based interpretation and everything, as I requested? I (think) I see where you guys are going with some of these, but I do not see the others. I'm a fool and darkness covers my heart and something, you gotta work with me here :P
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DarkContractor
#5C_MatPosted 7/16/2013 4:32:11 PM(edited)
Almost every single story in the Bible connects with Jesus in some way: who he is, and what he came to do.

Adam was tested in a garden and failed. Jesus was tested in a garden and passed.

Innocently slain Abel's blood cried out for vengeance on his killer. Innocently slain Jesus cried out for forgiveness for his killers.

Abaraham's near-sacrifice of Isaac is one of the clearest allusions to Jesus, so I probably don't even need to explain this for you. But the main thing to remember is that Abraham showed his love for God by his willingness to give up his son, which, obviously, is exactly what God was doing with Jesus- except Jesus was truly sacrificed. Also, Jesus and Isaac both had miraculous births.

The blood of the passover lamb kept the angel of death from taking your life.

Moses was a mediator between God and Israel for a New Covenant. The people who put their faith in Moses passed through the Red Sea from certain death to new life. God didn't save the Israelites because of their good works or keeping the law, but God saved them and then gave them a law to follow. Moses and Jesus were both born at a time that an evil king was trying to kill all the newborn babies.

Joseph sat at the right hand of the king and forgives those who betrayed him, and then uses his power to save them.

Job was the innocent sufferer who, if you read it all the way to the end, intercedes for and saves his stupid friends.

David was Israel's savior who, when they were too scared to defend themselves, stepped into the fight and delivered the victory. David's victory became his people's victory, though they never did anything to accomplish it themselves.

Jonah volunteered to be thrown out into the storm to save his friends on the boat.

All of the feasts talked about in Jewish laws were references to things that Jesus accomplished.
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#6_Rasl3rX_(Topic Creator)Posted 7/16/2013 4:48:45 PM
C_Mat posted...
Almost every single story in the Bible connects with Jesus in some way: who he is, and what he came to do.

Adam was tested in a garden and failed. Jesus was tested in a garden and passed.

Innocently slain Abel's blood cried out for vengeance on his killer. Innocently slain Jesus cried out for forgiveness for his killers.

Abaraham's near-sacrifice of Isaac is one of the clearest allusions to Jesus, so I probably don't even need to explain this for you. But the main thing to remember is that Abraham showed his love for God by his willingness to give up his son, which, obviously, is exactly what God was doing with Jesus- except Jesus was truly sacrificed. Also, Jesus and Isaac both had miraculous births.

The blood of the passover lamb kept the angel of death from taking your life.

Moses was a mediator between God and Israel for a New Covenant. The people who put their faith in Moses passed through the Red Sea from certain death to new life. God didn't save the Israelites because of their good works or keeping the law, but God saved them and then gave them a law to follow. Moses and Jesus were both born at a time that an evil king was trying to kill all the newborn babies.

Joseph sat at the right hand of the king and forgives those who betrayed him, and then uses his power to save them.

Job was the innocent sufferer who, if you read it all the way to the end, intercedes for and saves his stupid friends.

David was Israel's savior who, when they were too scared to defend themselves, stepped into the fight and delivered the victory. David's victory became his people's victory, though they never did anything to accomplish it themselves.

Jonah volunteered to be thrown out into the storm to save his friends on the boat.

All of the feasts talked about in Jewish laws were references to things that Jesus accomplished.


My most immediate objection is that you are summarizing these in a method that indicates perfect, reflexive symbolism.

For example, If I say A=12487800929, and B=8780, then it seems to me as though your method says "Look, 8780 is in A!" without posting the context of A, and while we may recall the general stories of these passages, I would like you to list the specific verses so that we can more efficiently zoom in on them.
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DarkContractor
#7CorporateKnightPosted 7/16/2013 4:53:40 PM
Want to know? Read

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.viii.xvii.html?highlight=prefiguration#highlight
#8SuibomPosted 7/16/2013 5:06:09 PM
DC, are you asking to learn, or baiting to teach?
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"Indeed these are the mere edges of His ways, and how small a whisper we hear of Him!
But the thunder of His power who can understand." - Job 24:14
#9Dathrowed1Posted 7/16/2013 5:52:55 PM
Suibom posted...
DC, are you asking to learn, or baiting to preach?


fixed that for you
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sig
#10FlashOfLightPosted 7/16/2013 6:12:05 PM
_Rasl3rX_ posted...
Can you guys provide commentary as to your Jesus-based interpretation and everything, as I requested? I (think) I see where you guys are going with some of these, but I do not see the others. I'm a fool and darkness covers my heart and something, you gotta work with me here :P


The Jews were very familiar with their genealogy, they kept strict records since doing so was of critical importance to allowing who was and who was not High Priest, as well as family inheritances.

The promise of a Messiah as King was promised specifically to the tribe of Judah, and from the tribe of Judah - to the root of Jesse, and from Jesse to the line of David the King, and that out of David's line the Messiah would arise, and that he would also arise in a specific place in Judah, and that he would be born in a specific city, that he would preach in Mount Zion in Jerusalem, and also likewise be killed by his enemies.

It wasn't in just Judah alone, also, since it was first declared against Satan under the title of the Serpent, in Genesis, that out of Eve's seed there would arise one to crush his head.

We are discussing the Old Testament, but the New Testament explains the in-betweens, such as one having to be born after the Priestly Order of Melchisedec, and not of Levi, and the promise to Abraham that he would be heir of the world through his seed, and that through Abraham's seed the blessing toward the Gentiles would come.
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