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How can this simple and short 'proof' of no free-will be refuted?

#1Nitro378Posted 8/3/2013 4:56:36 PM
I can't see a way, anyway, but I'm curious if there's any objection, it might sound a little muddled to write down but I've thought about it a lot and it makes sense to me, well okay, here goes.

All actions anyone on Earth takes is determined by a combination of 'nature', ie. genetics, and 'nurture', ie. upbringing, experiences, etc. A human does not choose their genetics, and they don't choose their upbringing either - and any decision they make to do anything to affect their 'nurture' (for example choose to read a book on philosophy and ethics) is informed entirely by their prior nature and nurture. Since all actions anybody can take are based completely on their genetics and their life experience/upbringing (none of which is open to real choice as I hope I've logically demonstrated), no action can ever be a result of any free will.

Thoughts?
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Zombie Clement Attlee 2015 --- (Zombie) FDR/Sanders 2016
If you want friends in Washington, get a lobbyist - me
#2SuibomPosted 8/3/2013 5:03:18 PM
I'd post a real response, but I'm too busy willing myself not to.
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"Indeed these are the mere edges of His ways, and how small a whisper we hear of Him!
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#3Nitro378(Topic Creator)Posted 8/3/2013 5:07:18 PM
Whatever you like, I know this isn't strictly about religion but it doesn't fit on 261 where I usually hang out and it seems semi-related here.
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Zombie Clement Attlee 2015 --- (Zombie) FDR/Sanders 2016
If you want friends in Washington, get a lobbyist - me
#4PhoroPosted 8/3/2013 5:27:22 PM
I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough to delve into the subject, but while reading your topic I got a very strong 'Chicken or the Egg' vibe going that I can't quite put into the proper words. Do you know what I mean?
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What she asked of me, at the end of the day...
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#5Nitro378(Topic Creator)Posted 8/3/2013 5:34:57 PM
While we're on the subject I'm pretty sure I have a solution for the chicken and the egg too (with evolution). But yeah, idk, it's sort of a hassle for me too because now I have to deliberately have doublethink in my brain to believe that punishment for actions is justifiable while simultaneously thinking free will doesn't exist.
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Zombie Clement Attlee 2015 --- (Zombie) FDR/Sanders 2016
If you want friends in Washington, get a lobbyist - me
#6OrangeWizardPosted 8/3/2013 5:38:42 PM
So, determinism?

I don't know a lot about it, but I'd argue that the human brain is still largely a mystery and you can't just write free will off like that.

For example, can you prove that every action we take is a result of nature and nurture?
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Trolling and making valid arguments are not mutually exclusive
#7str8KnowledgePosted 8/3/2013 7:38:30 PM
Where is the person that takes action?
#8ElderMisanthropyPosted 8/3/2013 8:20:55 PM
Even if the entirety of our decisions were arbitrated by our nature and nurture, that would not, in my opinion, negate the notion of free will. The causes and events that lead us to reason or act a certain way are still entirely within our ability to tolerate, filter, or ignore. Judgment and reason may be forged and tempered by both experience and genetics, but that doesn't suddenly mean the choice is anything but your own to make.
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The moon viewing dumpling is a bit of a dreamer.
#9lastheroPosted 8/3/2013 9:31:15 PM
While we're on the subject I'm pretty sure I have a solution for the chicken and the egg too (with evolution)


It's a stupid question, anyway.
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#10Faust_8Posted 8/3/2013 9:46:46 PM
Eggs evolved far before chickens, so yeah, egg came first.

I mean...c'mon, dinosaurs layed eggs and chickens are just highly adapted dinosaurs.
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I'm not against religion. I'm against all bad ideas, held for bad reasons, prompting bad behavior.