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Why is god a monarch rather than a president?

#1CoyoteTheGreatPosted 8/25/2013 7:12:17 PM
I think its a fair enough question, given the prevalence of imagery relating to monarchism in Christianity. There is a "Kingdom" of Heaven. Jesus is a "Lord". Read with a 21st century perspective, that kind of imagery isn't just unpersuasive, its offensive given that feudalism was little more than romanticized slavery. I think the worst offense a religion could possibly commit to its credibility would be to date itself in some way.
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#2mercuryinkPosted 8/25/2013 7:24:47 PM
Monarchs, by definition, are chosen by the gods. That's what a monarch is.
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#3C_MatPosted 8/25/2013 7:33:09 PM
If you don't like Christianity's system, at least you don't have to be in it. God is not forcing anybody to be a part of his kingdom.

Actually, I'm curious to know why you think that going from a monarchy to democratically elected leaders is progressive rather than regressive. As in, what standard are you using to judge kings/kingdoms as irrelevant?
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#4Nitro378Posted 8/25/2013 7:53:39 PM
C_Mat posted...
If you don't like Christianity's system, at least you don't have to be in it. God is not forcing anybody to be a part of his kingdom.

...Sure, you instead have the 'choice' to reject the system and be tortured for eternity. How is that different from insane monarchs exactly (except that, yknow, it's way worse than anything a mortal could ever do to you)?
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#5SirThinkALotPosted 8/25/2013 8:00:30 PM
A perfect Monarch is better than a corrupt president(and really pretty much every one has been corrupt to some extent).
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#6C_MatPosted 8/25/2013 8:41:57 PM
Nitro378 posted...
...Sure, you instead have the 'choice' to reject the system and be tortured for eternity. How is that different from insane monarchs exactly (except that, yknow, it's way worse than anything a mortal could ever do to you)?


To be clear, the kingdom is HEAVEN, a place of eternal peace and happiness. If you choose to reject it, I don't see how that's God's fault. At least he gives you a choice, but you can't blame him for the decision you make.

If Bill gave Judy an apple on a Styrofoam plate and said, "You can eat the apple and have a nice, enjoyable meal; or eat the plate had have a stomachache for two days. Your choice," I hardly think you'd blame Bill if Judy decides she'd rather have the Styrofoam.
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#7rick alveradoPosted 8/25/2013 8:51:10 PM
God isn't a president because he's not elected. We don't hold a vote on who gets to be the Creator of the Universe. I'm not sure I understand the lack of understanding.
#8Faust_8Posted 8/25/2013 8:51:57 PM
C_Mat posted...
Nitro378 posted...
...Sure, you instead have the 'choice' to reject the system and be tortured for eternity. How is that different from insane monarchs exactly (except that, yknow, it's way worse than anything a mortal could ever do to you)?


To be clear, the kingdom is HEAVEN, a place of eternal peace and happiness. If you choose to reject it, I don't see how that's God's fault. At least he gives you a choice, but you can't blame him for the decision you make.

If Bill gave Judy an apple on a Styrofoam plate and said, "You can eat the apple and have a nice, enjoyable meal; or eat the plate had have a stomachache for two days. Your choice," I hardly think you'd blame Bill if Judy decides she'd rather have the Styrofoam.


1) The point is it's not a choice without consequences, and parading around "choice" as if it's of no consequence is misleading. And frankly, when I see Christians say "it's your choice" it's as if they're pretending that it has no consequence.

It's as if saying "do this or I kill you" is a totally free and fair choice, and that's essentially what the heaven/hell thing is. Just because it's possible to choose one or the other doesn't mean you're aren't de facto forced to choose the clearly superior one.

2) Your analogy is comparing something factual and definite to something that's completely not. Eating polystyrene (Styrofoam is a brand name, not a material) instead of an apple is an obviously bad choice. But Christianity is not obviously true by any stretch of "obvious" or "true." So you can't act as though there is equal blame in both scenarios.

3) Finally, no one chooses what they believe in the first place. No one can force themselves to believe something that appears to be false from their perspective, and we don't choose our perspective. So it's unfair to begin with--the onus shouldn't be on us to believe, it should be on you to convince.
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#9CoyoteTheGreat(Topic Creator)Posted 8/25/2013 10:01:25 PM
rick alverado posted...
God isn't a president because he's not elected. We don't hold a vote on who gets to be the Creator of the Universe. I'm not sure I understand the lack of understanding.


The title of "creator" is different than the title of "god" to begin with. Merely creating something doesn't give you rights over it. In the Gnostic tradition, the demiurge is the creator and he is this terrible being that is completely separate from their conception of god. And in the deist tradition, the creator is just something that is, he just kind of sits around, being mighty and ignoring humanity.

The thing is though, you kind of miss the point of this topic, which is more about how antiquated ideas can date a religion than whether god really should be a president or not.
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Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
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#10SirThinkALotPosted 8/25/2013 10:04:17 PM
CoyoteTheGreat posted...
The thing is though, you kind of miss the point of this topic, which is more about how antiquated ideas can date a religion than whether god really should be a president or not.


A more important question is does it really matter what term we use?
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