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Any moderate Christians here?

#81BronyFriendzoni(Topic Creator)Posted 10/31/2013 7:14:39 PM
Moorish_Idol posted...

Keeping in mind that this discussion is working with the premise that God is good by definition:


Where'd you get that idea from? I started this discussion and I never once said that had to be the case. But still it proves what I'm saying, either you have to agree that genocide is good if god commands it(dictionary definition is the only definition that matters here) God is evil, or God never did and never would order genocide(as the Catholic Church generally holds)



You don't consider yourself a radical -- but others could. To be a radical means to favor changing fundamentals of how current institutions work to better match your own beliefs.


That's too limited a definition of radical. I want a Utopian society where nobody suffers, everyone has the right and the ability to pursue their highest perfection in God's embrace, but I favor going about that incrementally. you can't be a Fabian radical.




It's a relative term. This is why in politics we have every possible side calling every other possible side radical or extreme.


They do that because it's a good tactic. People generally are wary of radicals.

So by making a topic defining yourself as a moderate, non-radical, non-scary Christian, you are implying an objective standard exists that you meet and others don't. At the same time, people are thinking that same thing about you.


That only holds if I'm actually presuming that I'm moderate by an objective metric. But I'm not. If I were living in the 1860s, I'd definitely be a radical. But I'm not. I'm living in the 21st century and I have relatively typical and "centrist" views on things and an aversion to changing the status quo too quickly in either direction. My metric isn't objective, it's inter-subjective.



The sooner you realize this, the sooner you can understand why you aren't seeing moderate Christians.


I see moderate Christians everywhere. Except for this board.
#82Moorish_IdolPosted 10/31/2013 8:00:42 PM
BronyFriendzoni posted...
Where'd you get that idea from? I started this discussion and I never once said that had to be the case. But still it proves what I'm saying, either you have to agree that genocide is good if god commands it(dictionary definition is the only definition that matters here) God is evil, or God never did and never would order genocide(as the Catholic Church generally holds)

My argument worked with that premise. "genocide is good if god commands it" would be the conclusion to my premise, if you want to oversimplify it.

But just to clear things up: I'm not a Christian, so I don't have a concrete position about the genocide thing personally. I was arguing this to make the point I brought up in the last post, that there is no right or wrong or moderate answer if multiple premises are valid depending on the belief you hold. There is no "moderate Christian" if that definition changes depending on the beliefs you hold.

That's too limited a definition of radical. I want a Utopian society where nobody suffers, everyone has the right and the ability to pursue their highest perfection in God's embrace, but I favor going about that incrementally. you can't be a Fabian radical.

I based my definition from the dictionary. How is it any more limited than your usage of genocide?

Just curious: does your Utopian society have room for people who don't want or don't believe in God's embrace?

That only holds if I'm actually presuming that I'm moderate by an objective metric. But I'm not. [...] My metric isn't objective, it's inter-subjective.

You are subjectively moderate, just as I could say, subjectively, you are radical. But why make a topic like this which is working with an objective metric?

I mean your position is essentially "I am moderate according to my perspective." And that's fine. But then you made a topic asking whether moderate Christians exist here according to your subjective idea of being moderate, without actually detailing what makes a moderate Christian until several people had answered (and even then, your definition of a moderate Christian is essentially "those like me," so there isn't much discussion to be had outside of how relative your viewpoint is).

If this is your approach with religion discussions (or any discussions, really), you're not going to ever get much out of them. These sort of labels are generalizations -- it's best to keep all these comparisons to yourself and focus on what people say, not what you think they are saying.
#83BronyFriendzoni(Topic Creator)Posted 10/31/2013 9:44:04 PM
Moorish_Idol posted...

My argument worked with that premise. "genocide is good if god commands it" would be the conclusion to my premise, if you want to oversimplify it.


I'm not oversimplifying it. I'm not allowing it to be over-complicated.


I based my definition from the dictionary. How is it any more limited than your usage of genocide?


Webster's defines it as "the opinions and behavior of people who favor extreme changes especially in government :"

I don't want any extreme changes. Only incremental ones.

Just curious: does your Utopian society have room for people who don't want or don't believe in God's embrace?


What do you mean by room? Nobody should ever be compelled to believe or accept that which they don't believe. Freedom of conscience and belief is the bedrock of any just society.

You are subjectively moderate, just as I could say, subjectively, you are radical. But why make a topic like this which is working with an objective metric?


By the standards of society-at-large in the present day, I am a moderate. You could only say I was a radical if you defined all of present society as "radical" which would make you a radical in society's eyes.

I mean your position is essentially "I am moderate according to my perspective." And that's fine. But then you made a topic asking whether moderate Christians exist here according to your subjective idea of being moderate, without actually detailing what makes a moderate Christian until several people had answered (and even then, your definition of a moderate Christian is essentially "those like me," so there isn't much discussion to be had outside of how relative your viewpoint is).


I told you, I didn't make this up myself.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/17/opinion/17danforth.html?_r=0
#84Moorish_IdolPosted 11/1/2013 10:42:23 PM
Let's say there's another Christian person who shares all your beliefs and positions on things. However, this Christian doesn't consider himself to be a moderate. Who's wrong?
#85BronyFriendzoni(Topic Creator)Posted 11/1/2013 11:39:53 PM
Moorish_Idol posted...
Let's say there's another Christian person who shares all your beliefs and positions on things. However, this Christian doesn't consider himself to be a moderate. Who's wrong?


Whether you're a moderate is determined by what the attitudes of the society around you are. He'd be a fellow moderate, just with a poor read of what the prevailing attitudes in society are. Now having said that, I think the fact that he thinks of himself as not a moderate is a non-trivial difference in our positions.
#86BronyFriendzoni(Topic Creator)Posted 11/9/2013 3:32:44 PM
If you really don't know what society considers a moderate, you need to get out more.
#87Moorish_IdolPosted 11/9/2013 4:33:07 PM(edited)
Or you could stop conflating American politics and religion.

Anyway, that has nothing to do with it. I made my point above in like ten different ways. I don't feel like explaining it again.
#88Polish_CrusaderPosted 11/9/2013 7:19:53 PM
BronyFriendzoni posted...
If you really don't know what society considers a moderate, you need to get out more.


No, you need to explain yourself more.
---
"Being a Christian isn't for sissies.It takes a real man to live for God If you really want to live right these days, you gotta be tough."-Johnny Cash
#89BronyFriendzoni(Topic Creator)Posted 11/9/2013 11:45:57 PM
Moorish_Idol posted...
Or you could stop conflating American politics and religion.


I'm not doing that.
#90BronyFriendzoni(Topic Creator)Posted 11/9/2013 11:47:33 PM
And your point isn't relevant no matter how many times you explain it.