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If Satan and God exist, how can you determine which is good or evil?

#21Dynast_King(Topic Creator)Posted 12/26/2013 10:50:02 AM(edited)
Fingerpuppet posted...
Oh, okay.

God killed billions

So you want to explain to me where you got this number from?


Rough estimation, but I'm going off of:

- All humans who were wiped out in the flood
- The Egyptians
- Sodom and Gomorrah
- The Amalekites
- The Canaanites

Realistically, the actual number is more than likely in the millions, but either way you spin it, we're dealing with a lot of deaths here.

And this is just plain wrong, which leads me to suspect that you've never actually read the Bible. If you had, or even had done basic research, you'd know that the number is actually eight.


Irony in this post. I've read enough to know that the "Accuser" who was mentioned in Job wasn't actually intended to be Satan in the original Jewish translations, but rather a deity of the holy council (of which was composed by the "sons of god") who consulted with God and carried out judgment in his name. That's especially evident when the actual word used to indicate Satan in the NT is "Adversary", which is a totally different word in Hebrew than "Accuser".

The being mentioned in Job is more or less God's servant, and thus cannot reasonably be equated with Satan, which thus makes my initial claim true regarding whether or not Satan killed anyone.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed/2012/11/06/the-accuser-is-not-satan-rjs/

And this totally ignores how God rewarded many more people for doing good by today's standard. You present only one side of the argument and then act as if you're doing something new....and now I'm waiting for you to shout, "Gotcha!"


Wow. A perfectly good being rewards deceitful practices and dishonesty, and your grand rebuttal is "well at least he rewarded OTHER people in totally unrelated scenarios!"

You missed the point. God is supposed to be perfectly good, which to my understanding kind of implies that he wouldn't reward deceit.
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"Undying, we Occuria light the path for wayward sons of man. Oft did we pass judgment on them so that Ivalice might endure."
#22Slade867Posted 12/26/2013 3:35:57 PM
God, as defined by the Bible (whose definition here is missing), was created by humans. Why wouldn't we use human standards? Why should we do anything else?

Is this your way of saying God is not real? Why are you wasting your time talking about an imaginary figure, especially when you won't accept the given principles that h exists for the sake of the conversation? When people are talking about events in their favorite movie, do you butt in with "Gaiz! It was FAKE. Those were totally actors!!!!""?
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If there's one thing the big guy hates, it's a bully!
#23Polish_CrusaderPosted 12/26/2013 4:03:12 PM
At the time of The Flood, there was nowhere near 1 billion people.
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"Being a Christian isn't for sissies.It takes a real man to live for God If you really want to live right these days, you gotta be tough."-Johnny Cash
#24Dynast_King(Topic Creator)Posted 12/26/2013 4:24:16 PM
Polish_Crusader posted...
At the time of The Flood, there was nowhere near 1 billion people.


Did you only read the first line of that post? I already conceded to that.
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"Undying, we Occuria light the path for wayward sons of man. Oft did we pass judgment on them so that Ivalice might endure."
#25Julian_CaesarPosted 12/26/2013 8:39:31 PM
Dynast_King posted...
So I guess the rules in the OT didn't really matter, then. Jews had the same standards for attaining salvation that Christians have today. My mistake.


Theologically speaking, yes they did. Your mistake.
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Every day the rest of your life is changed forever.
#26Dynast_King(Topic Creator)Posted 12/26/2013 9:48:43 PM
So the mosaic laws were just superfluous then, I guess.
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"Undying, we Occuria light the path for wayward sons of man. Oft did we pass judgment on them so that Ivalice might endure."
#27OrangeWizardPosted 12/26/2013 10:59:19 PM
Hey Dynast king, I made a topic just for you.
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Think about all the time I've been wasting
Finding the right thing to say
#28FingerpuppetPosted 12/27/2013 12:43:57 AM
Dynast_King posted...
Fingerpuppet posted...
Oh, okay.

God killed billions

So you want to explain to me where you got this number from?


Rough estimation, but I'm going off of:

- All humans who were wiped out in the flood
- The Egyptians
- Sodom and Gomorrah
- The Amalekites
- The Canaanites

Realistically, the actual number is more than likely in the millions, but either way you spin it, we're dealing with a lot of deaths here.


More than likely? How about definitely? I sincerely doubt that over a billion people lived on the Earth back in the day.

Irony in this post. I've read enough to know that the "Accuser" who was mentioned in Job wasn't actually intended to be Satan in the original Jewish translations, but rather a deity of the holy council (of which was composed by the "sons of god") who consulted with God and carried out judgment in his name. That's especially evident when the actual word used to indicate Satan in the NT is "Adversary", which is a totally different word in Hebrew than "Accuser".

The being mentioned in Job is more or less God's servant, and thus cannot reasonably be equated with Satan, which thus makes my initial claim true regarding whether or not Satan killed anyone.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed/2012/11/06/the-accuser-is-not-satan-rjs/


...you're wrong. Okay, here's the first link brought to you by Google:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_Satan_personally_killing_people

Tl;dr: Job's children. Also, you cannot say, "But God allowed it!" because Satan is the one who did it.. But hey, feel free to use an archaic definition of Satan if it makes you feel any better; it doesn't make you right when we're using the common (albeit loose) definition used today.

Wow. A perfectly good being rewards deceitful practices and dishonesty, and your grand rebuttal is "well at least he rewarded OTHER people in totally unrelated scenarios!"


No, that's not what I said. Find your fallacy here (straw man): http://i.imgur.com/A9zVLAc.jpg

You provide one example of God rewarding the deceitful when is lines up with his aims, and then you ignore every other example of him rewarding the good while telling me that my response was inadequate. Do you not understand how utterly stupid that is? You must either take into account all information when you form a conclusion; you can't ignore anything just because it doesn't fit with your bias.

You missed the point. God is supposed to be perfectly good, which to my understanding kind of implies that he wouldn't reward deceit.


According to who, besides yourself? I know of no reason that God should be perfectly good, but then again...you haven't defined "perfectly good".
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^^If you do not have an open mind, then I have nothing to discuss with you.
#29Dynast_King(Topic Creator)Posted 12/29/2013 11:57:40 AM
up

I'll be getting back to this topic soon
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It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, who is poor. ~ Jose Mujica
#30hunter_gohanPosted 12/30/2013 7:38:47 AM
Fingerpuppet posted...
According to who, besides yourself? I know of no reason that God should be perfectly good, but then again...you haven't defined "perfectly good".


The vast majority of all Christians. Save maybe Gnostics(they still around?)

"Central Gnostic beliefs that differ from orthodox Christian teachings include: the creator as a lower being [‘Demiurge’] and not a Supreme Deity;..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism#Christianity_and_Gnosticism

"Accordingly, the demiurge is malevolent, as linked to the material world."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge

You're right though there is no reason at all that a god must or should be perfectly good, it's just that's what the Christians keep telling us.
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The food that stands on his [Odin's] table he gives to two wolves of his called Geri and Freki. He himself needs no food; wine is for him both drink and meat.