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Approach to religions and worldviews

#71OrangeWizardPosted 3/18/2014 7:24:28 AM
GuideToTheDark posted...
I don't know about a woman's touch, but I'm certain that /b/ros are denied from the pearly gates, OW.

Also, most of those fedoras are actually trilbies.


Are you implying that I frequent 4chan? The running gag of the fedora-neckbeard-atheist does not exclusively exist on 4chan, you know.
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The head is backwards.
The head is backwards
#72DarkContractorPosted 3/18/2014 7:46:18 AM
I feel you guys tend to be too hard on Jon. I like to talk to Jon and share many of his opinions, so I may be biased here, but I feel like he makes valid points, even if he is aggressive/redundant about them. I feel like a lot of yall were just kinda "oh good grief" and kinda just exasperated when he brought up the whole 'no evidence' rigamarole but that's a very valid reason as to why millenials may be leaving the Church, hell that's in part, alongside contrary evidence, why I left the Church and I'm a millenial, so risk of confirmation bias aside, that at least shows he could be on to something here.
#73Polish_CrusaderPosted 3/18/2014 7:53:06 AM
^ no, hes not onto anything. And everyone here is calling him out for it.

What is the point in complaining about something you are doing nothing about? Its like me walking into a history class and shouting "WHERES THE EVIDENCE" and i refuse to sit down and study the classes material.

Following God is not a science experiment, this is jonwoods key failure. He keeps talking about "scientifically verifiable", but that makes no sense in the subject of conversation we are having. Pursuing God is a relationship. Are relationships scientifically verifiable for which ones work and dont? Not really. Because what works for one does not work for the other. God wants us to pursue Him. Jonwood is not doing that right now. So put two and two together:

(2) jon wood complains about not seeing evidence for God (+2) Jon wood does not want to look at evidence by himself and pursue it personally to find God (= 0) Jonwood failure of logic

Rule of thumb for every subject of life: Dont complain about something you are refusing to do anything about.
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"Being a Christian isn't for sissies.It takes a real man to live for God If you really want to live right these days, you gotta be tough."-Johnny Cash
#74DarkContractorPosted 3/18/2014 8:24:08 AM
except he did study the bible, and he did pursue god. Remember, he was a Christian his whole life, recently de-converted?

why am i even responding to you
#75DarkContractorPosted 3/18/2014 8:27:42 AM
also millennials leaving the Church because of a lack of evidence isn't contingent on whether or not millennials are going about finding evidence the 'correct' way ('correct' in quotations because, as you fail to realize, you asserting what you believe about God and evidence as true doesn't make what you believe about God and evidence actually true)
#76JonWood007Posted 3/18/2014 8:46:39 AM(edited)
More interesting than the conclusions, what sparked the existential crisis?


Polish hinted on it. You don't think you're the only one who has experienced heartbreak, do you?

Except for me, my religious attitudes made the situation worse because my worldview was irrational, dysfunctional, and full of all kinds of inconsistencies. Funny thing was, if you removed God from the equation, it all made sense, not just that scenario, but EVERYTHING. God adds in all kinds of extra variables into equations that make simple situations complex. He's an unnecessary and unproven variable, and one that creates more problems than it solves. In short the situation made the simulation described here break down, just as this guy describes happened in his own life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-q8WZ1Ibso&list=PLA0C3C1D163BE880A

That's all your feelings and crap likely are. The simulation described in that video and the part two of it.

I could've chosen to be mad about what happened, but I decided instead to give God the benefit of the doubt and take a massive step back and look at the situation coldly and dispassionately. I would've remained a Christian if I could find other reasons to believe. But surprise, surprise. No evidence. I looked further, at every element of the religion, and once again, no evidence. You get a lot of victim blaming like Polish tried to do on me a few posts ago, you get a massive roundabout of excuses. You're told not to question, to just have FAITH. Christianity doesn't like it when you look for evidence. You begin to run into an entire system of control designed to stop you from seeking the truth. Just beleive the excuses we told you and be happy. Are you sure you didn't sin and that messed things up? (oh, who am i kidding, everyone sins so everyone messes things up, it's the perfect blanket excuse!) Or, the good old "God works in mysterious ways!" excuse.

The problem, there's not a single valid reason to believe Christianity AT ALL. So I adopted a rational point of view that was more compatible with reality.

What is the point in complaining about something you are doing nothing about? Its like me walking into a history class and shouting "WHERES THE EVIDENCE" and i refuse to sit down and study the classes material.


And they would be able to present evidence.

Following God is not a science experiment, this is jonwoods key failure. He keeps talking about "scientifically verifiable", but that makes no sense in the subject of conversation we are having. Pursuing God is a relationship. Are relationships scientifically verifiable for which ones work and dont? Not really. Because what works for one does not work for the other. God wants us to pursue Him. Jonwood is not doing that right now. So put two and two together:


Once again, watch the vid posted above, and the one after. The "personal relationship" is a MASSIVE illusion.


Rule of thumb for every subject of life: Dont complain about something you are refusing to do anything about.


Your methods don't work.
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#77Polish_CrusaderPosted 3/18/2014 10:41:53 AM
And they would be able to present evidence.


-And i could easily say, just like you "thats not evidence, its not scientifically verifiable", or "its just eye witness nonsense". This is literally what you say about everything on here. It carries no weight after a period of time, and everyone here is calling you on for it. Come up with something better or newer.



The "personal relationship" is a MASSIVE illusion.


-This is exactly what im talking about. You just proved my point. Making claims/complaints without looking into them. Its a massive illusion TO YOU, but not for millions of christians. Your failure of experience does not mean others experiences have failed.



Your methods don't work.


-You havent even done them. You dont even know what my methods are, atleast all of them. i know this because i havent told you all of them. Your methods dont work either. Thats why you keep going in circles. Do you realize most of what you said in this topic is one big illogical circle? You keep saying the same cliche baseless lines, refusing to follow up, and landing write back and step 1. Your getting really pathetic, jonwood.
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"Being a Christian isn't for sissies.It takes a real man to live for God If you really want to live right these days, you gotta be tough."-Johnny Cash
#78JonWood007Posted 3/18/2014 11:06:44 AM


-And i could easily say, just like you "thats not evidence, its not scientifically verifiable", or "its just eye witness nonsense". This is literally what you say about everything on here. It carries no weight after a period of time, and everyone here is calling you on for it. Come up with something better or newer.


The problem is your "evidence" has no reliable methodology behind it. As a matter of fact, to make it work, you have to reject the principles the scientific method is built upon. You always criticize me because I think too much. Well, I argue you don't think enough.

I've presented mountains of counter evidence to your views over the years and you just ignore it. Like near-death.com. I cite statistics, numerous stories, but what do you do? ANGELICA ZAMBRANO. Ignore EVERY OTHER NDE that exists, just focus on the one that coincides with my worldview. I am sorry, the world is more complex and not all evidence neatly fits in your worldview. You undermine your own testimony in doing this.

This is exactly what im talking about. You just proved my point. Making claims/complaints without looking into them. Its a massive illusion TO YOU, but not for millions of christians. Your failure of experience does not mean others experiences have failed.


I don't have to prove every single christian wrong. If their personal relationship means anything, they should provide evidence of this. I have provided an alternative theory as to what that relationship is, and the only counterargument is "well you don't KNOW that about EVERY Christian". No, I don't KNOW. But I can make observations and draw a reasonable conclusion based on the evidence. I can discuss my own experiences, and how it was a simulation that broke down. I can point to crazies like pat robertson who makes all kinds of crazy claims based on things that God suposedly told them. I can conclude that there is not a shred of evidence that the relationships of christians are real, heck, the totality of the evidence points in the other direction.

Every Christian thinks that their experiences are real...until they realize that they aren't. What makes your relationship so special?


-You havent even done them....


I don't need to experience everything myself. There are scientific studies on the subject, which largely come back with negative results. Those that don't either occur at the rate of chance, or have questionable methodology. If you watch those videos by evid3nc3, there is a line in there from his professor that I think is chilling...that in all of academia, across many, many disciplines, that there is not a shred of evidence that God is anything more than a concept.

I don't have to prove you wrong, PC, it's up to you to show me why I should take you seriously at all, and quite frankly, all you do is condemn me. You throw that experience I told you about in my face every time it's brought up, you always claim I do something wrong. Well, that's what Christianity is built upon. It's build upon stopping people from questioning the system, and tries to make people blame themselves for everything. Your system is structured in a way that the system is perfect and can't POSSIBLY be wrong, and that if something went wrong, it MUST be user error. I call BS. I question your system, and I have found it to be baseless.
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#79Polish_CrusaderPosted 3/18/2014 12:19:12 PM
This is what you dont get....

I dont have to prove anything. I didnt make the claims, you did. You came out and said "NO EVIDENCE OMG". Its your job to find the evidence not me. I have mine. Im not the one complaining abotu evidence- you are.

Back up your own word. If you want it find it.

Put up, or shut up.
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"Being a Christian isn't for sissies.It takes a real man to live for God If you really want to live right these days, you gotta be tough."-Johnny Cash
#80JonWood007Posted 3/18/2014 12:55:18 PM(edited)
I dont have to prove anything. I didnt make the claims, you did. You came out and said "NO EVIDENCE OMG". Its your job to find the evidence not me. I have mine. Im not the one complaining abotu evidence- you are.


Classic reversal of the burden of proof. Dismissed.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ur7ucSSf4nU/UnEOXvOPpII/AAAAAAAAaXI/UvWYKsAtoKw/s1600/Hitchens+Razor+2.jpg

PS, I also searched on my own and came up empty. Then again I don't go LALALA CANT HEAR YOU to everything that contradicts your worldview either.
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