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So this new stuff about the Big Bang...

#1mortal_snowPosted 3/18/2014 5:10:03 PM
Definitely intriguing. I'm not a science mind, so I don't believe I could begin to comprehend what they're talking about, but I've considered that whatever the scientists are studying and claiming to find, none of it disproves God if all this stuff is indeed plausible science. Not that I'm trying to get anyone here who doesn't believe in God to suddenly believe in Him, but the Bible doesn't necessarily talk all about the scientific details of how God made the world. I personally believe that none of the astrophysics or whatever the fields of science these things are will ever truly "prove" God by the definition of "prove" that scientists use to describe their findings. I think God Himself, being supernatural, by definition cannot be understood within the bounds of scientific thinking. I know that that's where scientists say, "Well, that's exactly the point. We can't prove him to be real with the science we uncover." But what I believe is that more and more knowledge alone won't suddenly trigger any answers about the mystery of God's existence. If God is real, and living a life that serves Him is meant to be filled with endless amounts of love and joy, among other things, then I believe for the most part that people won't find God if all they're after is knowledge. I think the nature of the God everyone says they'd believe in if they have more evidence can be big enough to not need complicated science to be proven. I think people can sense a breakthrough in their hearts upon learning more things, but I think knowledge alone, as a whole, misses the point of wondering about God's existence. Simply knowing more things about anything does not automatically trigger love in someone's heart. I believe the God in the Bible is all about love, so I'm not necessarily skeptical of scientists being brilliant enough to claim they have found some new answers about our origins; I'm skeptical of them only thirsting for more and more knowledge of our universe and nothing more. I could be wrong; I know that they have a joy for the world they observe and how beautiful nature can be.

TL;DR - I may be stating some controversial things for non-religious people, and some may feel like I'm targeting them and questioning their intelligence. I am not aiming for that. I'm simply wanting to offer my thoughts about a potential reconciliation of God and science. I believe that these scientists are definitely brilliant people, I cannot simply question that. Most Christians would just disregard everything they say, but I consider: is it possible that the scientists are on to something... AND that the Bible depicts an accurate account of a God who is real? That's what I'm trying to get to. The post is only long because I generally have a lot to say about things like this.
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#2Hustle KongPosted 3/18/2014 5:43:03 PM
Most Christians would just disregard everything they say


Uh, what?
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#3Moorish_IdolPosted 3/18/2014 5:45:09 PM
There is no default religious stance in science. In fact, science isn't religious at all. The reason scientists don't consider God claims is not because they are only interested in the material universe, but because science only works with the material universe.

I don't think you'll find many scientists out there who think their research has any implication on the existence of god (although it may counter specific supposed actions of gods). This theme of equating scientific knowledge with "everything" is rarely seen in the community. It's almost exclusively seen only in the armchair lay crowd.

That is to say, science isn't the only way to contemplate questions, and many scientists recognize this. This is apparent by the fact that the foundation of the scientific method itself is apart from science.

So to accuse scientists of only thirsting knowledge for our universe seems like a flawed perspective to me. It appears that way because that's what science allows. It appears that way because "true" scientists rarely say anything about god. You are right that science can't test god claims, but I think you are mistaking that for meaning scientists don't care for god claims.
#4mortal_snow(Topic Creator)Posted 3/18/2014 6:02:03 PM
Hustle Kong posted...
Most Christians would just disregard everything they say


Uh, what?


The heavy hardcore fundamentalist types, I should have specified. I've grown up around some of them so maybe I'm just generalizing too much.
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#5ForsakenHermitPosted 3/18/2014 6:05:56 PM
The Big Bang evidence is interesting but at this point it's icing on the cake.
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#6mortal_snow(Topic Creator)Posted 3/18/2014 6:30:38 PM
Moorish_Idol posted...
There is no default religious stance in science. In fact, science isn't religious at all. The reason scientists don't consider God claims is not because they are only interested in the material universe, but because science only works with the material universe.

I don't think you'll find many scientists out there who think their research has any implication on the existence of god (although it may counter specific supposed actions of gods). This theme of equating scientific knowledge with "everything" is rarely seen in the community. It's almost exclusively seen only in the armchair lay crowd.

That is to say, science isn't the only way to contemplate questions, and many scientists recognize this. This is apparent by the fact that the foundation of the scientific method itself is apart from science.

So to accuse scientists of only thirsting knowledge for our universe seems like a flawed perspective to me. It appears that way because that's what science allows. It appears that way because "true" scientists rarely say anything about god. You are right that science can't test god claims, but I think you are mistaking that for meaning scientists don't care for god claims.


I think I understand what you're saying. It sounds like you're making the case that science isn't really "religious" or "not religious," but that it's just what we observe among the world around us. I'm not trying to say that science is "religious." I'm just pondering the possibilities that these scientists are finding some very significant information that might not actually deviate from the Bible.
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Jesus lives!
Go Braves, Dawgs, and Falcons!
#7Moorish_IdolPosted 3/18/2014 7:51:06 PM
mortal_snow posted...
I think I understand what you're saying. It sounds like you're making the case that science isn't really "religious" or "not religious," but that it's just what we observe among the world around us. I'm not trying to say that science is "religious." I'm just pondering the possibilities that these scientists are finding some very significant information that might not actually deviate from the Bible.

Yeah. The way I see it, the same creation stories have been used to support young earth creationism, old earth creationism, intelligent design, theistic evolution, etc. I don't see why it couldn't be used to support a Big Bang too (in fact, it already has been for decades).
#8kozlo100Posted 3/18/2014 8:17:38 PM
I feel compelled to mention that this recent discovery does not say anything about the actual creation of the universe, but rather confirms one of a handful of competing theories about what happened a few trillionths of a second after that creation.

It is a very important discovery, to be sure, but it does not have metaphysical ramifications as far as the origin of the universe. If you thought God kicked off the Big Bang, this doesn't change anything about that.
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#9master_gamr1231Posted 3/18/2014 9:40:29 PM
kozlo100 posted...
I feel compelled to mention that this recent discovery does not say anything about the actual creation of the universe, but rather confirms one of a handful of competing theories about what happened a few trillionths of a second after that creation.

It is a very important discovery, to be sure, but it does not have metaphysical ramifications as far as the origin of the universe. If you thought God kicked off the Big Bang, this doesn't change anything about that.


But for someone who believes in God that takes an extremely literal interpretation of Genesis as meaning that the whole universe poofed into existence in exactly six days, it does defy them. If they ever even listen, of course
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#10Moorish_IdolPosted 3/18/2014 10:20:04 PM
master_gamr1231 posted...
kozlo100 posted...
I feel compelled to mention that this recent discovery does not say anything about the actual creation of the universe, but rather confirms one of a handful of competing theories about what happened a few trillionths of a second after that creation.

It is a very important discovery, to be sure, but it does not have metaphysical ramifications as far as the origin of the universe. If you thought God kicked off the Big Bang, this doesn't change anything about that.


But for someone who believes in God that takes an extremely literal interpretation of Genesis as meaning that the whole universe poofed into existence in exactly six days, it does defy them. If they ever even listen, of course

In the past they've always been willing to go the "mature universe" route to explain that.