Sniper's best friends

#1Phelan_PatrickPosted 2/3/2008 8:16:54 PM
This board is pretty dead so I'm just gonna put down some thoughts of mine seeing as no one's probably gonna read it. Beware this will end up as a wall of text.

In regards to the best weapons for snipers near end game I used to think that the gauss rifle was the last word for long distance sniping. Well I'm playing this game again and I kinda re-evaluated my views.

Let's first evaluate what a sniper is in this game. There are 2 things that are important to snipers. Range and critical chance. Range because snipers tend to be less protected and have less HP. So you'd want to be able to shoot an opponent first before they get a chance to get you in range and shoot back. Now unfortunately the longest ranging weapons have relatively low damage so chances are you wont get to kill an opponent before they could put you into range of their weapons. The best way to prevent this is to either knock your opponent out, cripple him so he cant use his heavy weapon(which BTW didn't seem to work for me), or blind them so they will just miss their shots when they do come into range. As we all know all these are achieved by getting critical hits. Thus critical chance is the second factor important to sniper. Now some may be asking what about damage? Well damage just falls below the other two. It's nice but not as important. Once a target is knocked out and he cant fight back you can still kill him with the least damaging weapon in the game though it may take some time. That being said I won't include in my examples traits or perks that allow you to do more damage quickly in expense of getting criticals. So no fastshot.

Now lets take a look at the weapons. So as I mentioned you'd want to have range so that means getting the longest ranged small gun. There are three weapons that fall into this category. The gauss rifle, gauss pistol, and sniper rifle which all have the max weapon range of 50. So lets take a look at all three.

The gauss rifle is the most powerful small gun in terms of damage. That statement alone would lead you to believe that this rifle is the best for snipers. But there is one problem. The gauss rifle costs one extra AP more than the sniper rifle. So lets say you have bonus rate of fire that's 4 AP normal shot and 5 AP aimed shot. So between the 2 modes, aimed shots would be what you'll be using most of the time since you'll be trying to get those critical hits (knockout, crippled, blinded, etc...). So with 12 AP (agility 10 and 2 bonus AP) you can get only two aimed shots off per turn which translates as 2 chances of getting those critical shots (crippled, knockout, blinded, etc...).

Now lets take a look at the gauss rifle's smaller bro. The gauss pistol has lower damage than the gauss rifle but more than the sniper rifle. But one important advantage is its AP cost. Being that this is a pistol it costs 1 AP less than a regular rifle or 2 AP less than the gauss rifle. Saying again you have bonus rate of fire that's 2 AP normal shot and 3 AP aimed shot. So that means 4 aimed shots with our desired AP of 12. That's 4 chances of getting a critical shot. Double that of the gauss rifle. And let me state it again that if you're a sniper criticals are what you'd want more than damage. If you wanted damage you'd better stick with heavy weapons specialist with fast shot, bonus rate of fire, bonus ranged damage, and a browning m2.

to be continued...


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I see you have constructed a new lightsabre. Your skills are complete, indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen.
#2Phelan_Patrick(Topic Creator)Posted 2/3/2008 8:21:12 PM
.... continuation

And lastly the sniper rifle. Now this is kinda just an after thought since it has less damage than the gauss rifle but higher AP requirement. The reason I'm mentioning this here is because you get it quite early where as the gauss weapons come in late in the game. so you'll more likely get more use out of this than the other 2. And more importantly, you get practically tens of thousands of ammo for this (my last game left me with more than 46K of ammo by end game) while gauss ammo is rather rare. So this may not be the best weapon for sniper but it sure is a very handy backup when you run out of gauss ammo.

End notes, among the three weapons I think the gauss pistol would be best for snipers because even though it does less damage it gives you more chances of hitting those criticals. Another advantage of this is that if you knockout an opponent with your first or second shot then you'd still have some more shots you can use on other opponents in range and just let your other squad mates move in for the kill. And in the time before you get the gauss pistol or when you run out of gauss ammo the sniper rifle would be a good alternative
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I see you have constructed a new lightsabre. Your skills are complete, indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen.
#3red255Posted 2/5/2008 1:35:50 AM
I personally felt the sniper rifle was good for its Cheap ammo that you can find in PLENTIFUL supply. Popping off something at range 50 lets assume you miss alot.

Gauss rifle was a bit rarer. I didn't want to use it on random encounters for example, and well the pistol, BEING a pistol gets -20% chance to hit? over a rifle?

So I have the sniper rifles firing away just trying to score a critical (VOODOO makes it more than a chance if I need the help)

and if I wanted Damage, the Sunbeam-Laser Rifle has plentiful ammo and 45 range and does a HECK of alot of damage.

yeah Gauss Rifle is better, didn't feel like switching over though.

As for the Low AP Gauss Pistol..... unless you are in something other than CTB mode you really don't notice it. I mean a Low AP energy pistol I've tried to use in CTB mode with Fast Shot they get like 1 AP to fire. Should fire faster, but its quicker than the firing animation to regenerate the AP.

If you want to complain about damage use the Browning M2, Take 3 Voodoo and you can kill pretty much everything on the map or until the Voodoo wears off. No problem. 45 Range.

But what was your small guns % to make the Gauss pistol GOOD for that range? just curious.
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"as for szs2, there's no way its gonna fall behind like szs did." -aers
#4Phelan_Patrick(Topic Creator)Posted 2/6/2008 6:16:49 PM
good point... I was very specific in my sniper build in terms of stats, perks and etc so i kinda power gamed to get as high on small guns as i could.... so 190-200... what i did was only used books to increase small guns early in the game, pumped my skillpoints into sneak; once sneak was on 130% and books werent adding too much anymore I poured all my skillpoints to smallguns. Also had other perks to boost skill pts (team player) and perception (sharpshooter)


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I see you have constructed a new lightsabre. Your skills are complete, indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen.
#5red255Posted 2/9/2008 1:21:12 PM
Also had other perks to boost skill pts (team player)
Team player does nothing.
Loner does +10% all the time. its glitched.

Going prone increases hit chance, as does that vehicle prone glitch. And maybe that bull horn trap glitch can't remember.

Sharpshooter? does that work for 10+2 in fallout tactics? Dillon has 14 PE or something fierce like that

but you've made you small guns aribitrarily large. one would think possibly unless you are getting a 95% eyeshot chance at range 50, you'd do better with a rifle..... er, well I guess range 50 is a bit much but anything under range 30 and your better off using a non-sniper gun.
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"as for szs2, there's no way its gonna fall behind like szs did." -aers
#6Phelan_Patrick(Topic Creator)Posted 2/9/2008 4:43:31 PM
^^ loner or team player.... either gives +10 to all skills... as for which was not working I thought it was loner that was broken. must have gotten them mixed.

yes prone is a help that's why that would be sniper's fav position (thats why I also love tunnel rat and flexible perks). I don't really use the bullhorn trap though. I find the enormous HP boost too cheesy.

Yes Dillon has the highest perception for recruits. Ghouls can have max of 14 PE. If I had a choice I would have started of my main char as a ghoul.

yes sharpshooter allows 10 + 2 perception for shooting. though 10 is racial max for humans there is a margin of +2 to all races max stats for things like sharpshooter, heave ho, power armor, etc... thats why you can get STR 12 when you wear power armor and have at least 8 STR . I don't remember if Dillon has sharpshooter when you first get him but if he did that would be 16 PE for purposes of ranged attacks!

I don't remember much for my eye shot % but at least 80% for me is good.

Sniper rifles are good. I just get more shots per turn with gauss pistols though I only use them in missions and not in random encounters w/c is a waste of gauss ammo.

I agree that for ranges less than 30 there are a lot of better choices (brownings have a range of 45 IIRC) but then again my opinions were for snipers, and getting good aimed shot hit % for 40+ range is the goal thats why I figured I needed a very high small guns skill.
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I see you have constructed a new lightsabre. Your skills are complete, indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen.
#7red255Posted 2/9/2008 5:47:09 PM
look man whats the most damage you've done with a Gauss Pistol?

The most damage I recall doing with a sniper rifle is 743 or so to a humanoid robot. With Jo.

I might not do it often, but sniper rifles can HURTz.
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"as for szs2, there's no way its gonna fall behind like szs did." -aers
#8Phelan_Patrick(Topic Creator)Posted 2/9/2008 7:02:29 PM
thats the point my snipers are not looking for damage, rather they are looking to knockout, blind or cripple. thats what I've been driving at in my first post. It wont matter if they would only do one damage or even zero as long as it stops the target from dealing damage back. with that in mind I would rather be able to shoot 4 times in a turn with 0 damage (which means four chances to knockout, cripple, or blind) than shoot 1, 2, or 3 times with more damage.

As we've agreed there are lot of better ways to deal damage.

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I see you have constructed a new lightsabre. Your skills are complete, indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen.
#9Phelan_Patrick(Topic Creator)Posted 2/9/2008 7:04:44 PM
a bit off topic.. i distinctly remember dillon starting out with 14 PE but guilers faq puts it at 11. I'll have to check it out once i get my pc back from the shop.
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I see you have constructed a new lightsabre. Your skills are complete, indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen.
#10red255Posted 2/9/2008 8:59:14 PM
^dunno patched recruits are DIFFERENT than unpatched recruits.

but he has 14 PE last time I played thru.
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"as for szs2, there's no way its gonna fall behind like szs did." -aers