Wizardry 8

You are right: magic is kinda weak, especially later on. Enemies have too hight ini in general, and enemy mages with their unlimited mana are "cheating".

Once you accept that, let your anger go i am sure you can think of some ways to beat them. I will not spoil the fan and let you figure it yourself. Once you beat them you can post again and ask how others are doing it.

take care.

Harie0 posted...
I mean what is going on? They can cast a spell quicker than me and they can kill my mages whenever they want. And is it just me is or is Magic damage a bit lack luster? I can't seem to break 20 yet their spells hit in the thirties or more.

Sadly, monsters have innate stats that mean they are more likely to cast before any of your characters unless you go all out raising your SPD at the cost of INT and PIE. For the first round at least, after that you should have Haste (and/or Superman) to raise your spellcasting speeds up.

What you can do is equip +SPD and +Initiative items to help lower the time it takes to get a spell off...other than that just build up resists and make sure to cast your Shield/Screen spells ASAP.

Through most of the early to mid game, there are only a few places where you will encounter enemy mages, usually cultists. Here the Fireball spells are probably the most deadly things you will find for most of the game. They tend to appear at certain specific party levels though, so if you avoid them while your party is still weak you can avoid much of the danger. (Arnika [+/- Trynton] road, and the Wilderness outside the Umpani Base camp mostly.)

As for damage...multiple target spells is where the real damage is. 10-30 versus all is better than 10-30 versus one. For the most party though, spell damage is partly fixed by spell casting level (green dots) and is affected by INT, Realm Skill (Fire/Water, etc.) and Book Skill (Wizardry, Alchemy, etc.). Your best way to increase spell damage is raise the Realm and Book skills as fast as possible to cast more dot's on solid green. Simply casting as much as possible as often as possible adds more skill point level ups than just the 3 points you can put in at level ups, although they do help.

For those unavoidable combats, try to have some Bombs and Powders on a high throwing skill character or two to help out your spell casters. (They will usually go before your spell casters anyway)

By Level 9 though, you should be able to cast Magic Screen at a minimum. Even if only via Scrolls. This spell is your first major defense to cut down spell damage. If you don't have it, find a way to get it and keep it up at all times.

Other than that, you will have to post your party build and specific enemies for us to help with strategies to beat them with.

Harie0 posted...
I'm not really upset with the game, but I find it rather daunting to constantly run into enemies that out number you, out level you, and surround you.

Once you have a good handle on the game mechanics and a feel for what (random) enemies will show up where and when, things get quite predicatable and fairly easy.

Outnumbered isn't a problem if you can disable the monsters, kill them quickly or just make use of the level architecture to prevent more than a few attacking at once.

Out leveled isn't a problem if you build your party and skill well. There are a couple of levels where the jump in enemy capability is a bit nasty, but with a bit of thought you should be able to get by. Just getting through the Arnika Road section the first time through is usually the worst. TIP: Go to your skill screen and right click the skill names such as Polearm. Pay attention to the governing stats listed, these are the stats that will determine how fast your skills will rise. A high STR for example may add a bit more damage, but it won't do anything to help the Dagger skill go up faster through use as the controlling attributes for Daggers are DEX and SPD. Most Weapons skills other than dagger are STR/DEX while the combat skills are INT/SEN. You can either put level up points in the one that goes up slower to compensate...or add it to the better one to max it out faster.

If you do get surrounded, don't forget that you can change the position of your members in the party formation during battle without spending a movement. You can pull vulernable casters into a center position, shift fighters to where the enemy is strongest or just move weaker characters out of direct action if they need to escape, rest or recover.

I'm in Trynton and some faeries are blocking my path.

Trynton fairies have low HP, but also love to cast Eye for an Eye...do the same back and cast/drink to get that spell on your party as well. If nothing else the fairies will kill themselves on the reflected damage plus your efforts! If you don't get any good spells off before they get the Eye spell up, try to use the single target spells to target the ones who don't have the spell up.

I have a Fighter Lizard (welding a sword and dagger), a human Valkyrie, a Rouge Lizard, a Priest Rauwlf, and a Lizard and Mook Magician...

THREE Lizards and one of them is a Mage???!!!

The Lizardman fighter is good, it's probably the best class for them overall and the one most players like to start with.

The Rogue Lizard isn't that bad either, although it's not one of their usual choices.

The Lizard Mage however, is a bad choice unless you are actually looking for a challenge! Low INT, Low PIE AND their 'special trait' is SLOWER magical point regeneration! Two mages is a bit unnecessary and having a different character class instead of second mage would probably be a better choice.

The Rawulf, Mook and Valkyrie are all fairly decent, although given the availabilty of Vi, I'd rather take a Bard instead.

Also, Magic Screen is a Level 3 Priest spell, so if you were looking for it on the mages...it's not going to happen. Overall, between the Mage and Priest you should have all the absolutely necessary spells covered. Priest(Magic Screen, ArmorPlate, Soul Shield) Mage(Missile Shield, Element Shield, Enchanted Blade)

And personally I don't recommend Fairies as character classes at all. Their weight and equipment penalties are simply to pervasive and hindering. I've had more luck with Dracon Bishops than I have with Fairies in any class other than Ninja, even with the ~5 level penalty to their stats you get for that combination.

Harie0 posted...
Wait... did I say Lizard? I meant Dracon... for all three actually. I'm not use to having two scaly races. It threw me off when I was playing Class of Heroes as well. I'm a bit more careful with the terms when I'm actually playing the game. And yeah, I'm not expecting much from the Dagger, but I have not found (or noticed) a sword I can put as secondary.

Understandable, although I will recommend that you not have more than two of these classes in the party until you get more experience given their bias for the melee style classes. I like Dracons slightly more than the Lizardmen simply because their natural breath weapon is so useful in the earliest stages of the game. After about L10 or so, the breath weapon stops being worth using all the time, but by then you should have developed your characters enough to not need it's support.

I thought I could double up on the mages and try to kill/disable the enemies before they surrounded me. As you already know, enemies move way to fast in this game to really pull that sort of thing off.

It's not so much that they move so fast, but rather that they move so far especially considering how close most of them are when combat starts. Most will be in contact by the end of the first turn or the second at the latest. You need to pay attention to the AI behaviour and keep your back to the wall if you are in danger of being surrounded.

Magic *is* good for helping to wear down the enemies and outright kill the weakest. Disabling spells are a bit hit or miss though. If they land, they are awesome, but if they miss it's disappointing. Some enemies like the Modai are really hard to kill without magic for much of the early to mid game, so it helps to have at least two dedicated magic casters and at least one dedicated thrower to use bombs/powders and all the stix that you get as loot. In terms of attack spells, the mage is the best followed by the Alchemist and then the Psionic. The Priest comes last. On the other hand, if you want to heal, the Priest has almost everything then the Alchemist and the Psionic. The Mage has no healing spells in his book though.

Yeah, I didn't know about Vi until I starting playing and ran into her. I'm doing my best not to spoil the game beforehand.

There's usually at least one recruitable character per area...but most of them have a big list of areas that they will refuse to go to, so you will end up constantly dropping and adding recruitable characters unless you pick the 2 that go almost everywhere. At least one of the (possible) quest lines requires that you take two specific characters in your party, and one for another. Most long time players of the game have habitually modded their game to allow the recruitable characters to go everywhere...for our sanity if nothing else. HINT: Vi is one of the characters that goes almost everywhere...

I'll dump the Dracon Mage and make a Bard or something. I wouldn't mind trying out a monk either.

The Monk is probably the best way to get a spell caster in your party who can use the Psionic spell book, other than going all out for a Bishop who can learn from all the spell books. The monk does really well with Martial arts (Bare hands!) or you can use a Staff or Bo if you need an extended weapon and don't want him in the front row. TIP: The stealth skill is ridiculously overpowered at high levels...boost this skill ASAP for all characters who can get it. (Like the Monk) The Monk is a little weak to start if you haven't given him enough VIT, but he matures fairly early in all but spell learning. You can recruit a Monk class RPC later in the game...but he won't be able to learn or cast any spells. So he's more of a brawler than a regular monk. Although regardless of that handicap, he's got some other abilites that make up for it and his basic capabilites are very good otherwise.

...Just some thoughts on building a good (first) party and getting a good mix of classes. First up a few of the most important basic party tips.


1) You will want at least one dedicated Priest book spellcaster and one Mage book caster. (Mage and Priest or substitute one or more for Bishops. Bishops are an advanced class so I'd stick with the mage+priest combo for now.) Between these two spell books you will have access to the most essential spells for surviving the world of Dominus. (Missle shield, Magic Screen, Armor Plate, Enchanted Blade, Soul Shield and Element Shield.) While it helps for both to have a good SPD stat, to cast faster, it's more critical that the Mage have it to get Element shield up sooner than the Priest does for Soul Shield or healing.

2) I recommend you have a good Trap/Lockpicker. While you could rely on magic+items for those needs, it's so much easier and simpler to have a dedicated character in addition for this. A rogue is perfect for this, but a Bard or Gadgeteer is equally useful in this area as well. You could rely on a Ninja, but I think this is a bad idea. Their skillset is so wide that trying to stretch them to cover traps/locks as well will hurt them in their best areas.

3) Since you have six permanent characters and the two recruitable's will by necessity drop at times, you will want at least 2 solid melee in addition to the priest/mage characters. The remaining two can be whatever your like the most, although I suggest you lean towards the melee/support side of things instead of adding another caster. Three solid melee, one either/or and a priest/mage combo is one of the best starter party setups for new players.


With that out of the way here's some notes and suggestions on the classes available to you.

FIGHTER - These guys are solid melee through and through. For new players a Lizardman Fighter is a good way to even the early odds in your favor. Give him a bow or cross bow in his offhand in case he's ever out of melee range, otherwise focus on his weapon and combat skills. These guys can wear and use just about every worthwhile armor and weapons in the game. There is one recruitable Fighter later in the game...but he's a quest RPC and will need to leave fairly soon and you won't be able to recruit him again.

LORD/VALKYRIE - These two are nearly equal. Their special abilites and stats differ slightly, but both cast from the Priest Spellbook. I recommend a Valkyrie over a Lord for most situations though, as their special ability (cheat death) is awesome to see in action and their specialty of Polearms is more useful overall than Dual Wielding. There is one very incredible offhand weapon for Lords to find (preset loot) and use...but there is just that, only one. Good Polearms however are easy to find and you can pick and choose what you like the most. The main downside to a Valkyrie, is the fact that you can pick Vi Domina up very early in the game and she is one of the recruitable characters that goes to almost every place in the game, and she is already a Valkyrie. In addition to Vi Domina (valkyrie) there is one Lord to recuit in the game. The Lord however, is a late quest RPC and will have to leave soon and cannot be recruited after again.