Red vs Blue

#1vonkaverpelPosted 10/10/2009 4:06:38 AM
If some of you haven't heard about this already, RVB mk 2 has started out a few weeks ago. The main purpose of RVB is for players to get instant fun pvp and perhaps learn something about combat in this game in the process. So if you're looking to get your feet wet with PVP, if you're a bored of running missions and mining, if you're sick and tired of the 0.0 grind and blobs and don't really like FW or want to do outlaw, then check this out.

Original thread: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1182525
In-game channel: R-V-B


I've been in it for a few days now so here are some highlights:

Advantages:
- There are no requirements to join, no interview, no API keys required. Day-old alts are accepted.
- No sec status loss, kill a lot of ships and don't turn into a -10 outlaw.
- No need to grind standings like you have to do to join factional warfare. No need to live in lowsec, can travel anywhere in empire without getting attacked by factional police, don't lose standing with enemy factions, no need to plex to capture systems.
- No logistics hassles, no need to live out of a POS in some regions with poor market. All action happens near relatively good trade hubs (Dodixie, Oursulaert). Local market is pretty good too.
- Can practice gang leading and no one will really care if you fail at it.
- Can start building a nice killboard record for yourself.
- Unlike it happens in most PVP corporations flying T1 instead of T2 is encouraged.
- Freedom. No corporate rules or requirements, you don't do anything else that would distract your focus from pvp.
- When it gets too blobby there are purple ops. Last one was a random raid into 0.0 Syndicate region to keel stuff there.

Disadvantages:
- A bit of staged pvp with the focus on keeping engagements fair and avoiding gankage, which is well, not how a lot of pvp happens in EVE, what people would call "real pvp".
- No podding without good reason. I don't know about others but for me as an ex-inty/dictor 0.0 pilot this one was difficult to accept. I mean the red pod, it is like right there in my scram range and i have to let go of it :/
- You might find yourself burning through ISK rather quickly. It is not uncommon to lose 5-10 ships a day. If you're good with looting then you will make up some losses otherwise just try to fly real cheap. Top ships on kb are T1 frigates.
- Because focus is on fair fights sometimes some players start whining and whining and then whining some more about some fights being unfair and there is no way to tell them to sdfu or pod them, which is typically my first instinct. So yeah some whiny noobs present.
- If you like flying T2 people will often tell you to ship down to T1 ships to avoid unbalanced fights. This one is both a pro and a con really. If you really love your absolution and don't want to fly anything else, you might have problems. Occasionally flying T2 and even faction is fine however.
#2BarrowhitePosted 10/10/2009 5:53:12 AM
The whole concept of "Red vs Blue" makes me sad. If you want to PvP like that then why not just play on the test server,

They recently banned falcons in RVB because they are 'unbalanced'. All the best pvp fights I have involve being massively outnumbered and taking out 3x my ships value before escaping in 20% structure.
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#3vonkaverpel(Topic Creator)Posted 10/10/2009 2:32:30 PM
PVP is not very fun if you're not risking to lose anything of value like on test server.

Falcons have not been "recently banned". It was agreed before this conflict has even started that excessive ECM use will be reserved for 3rd party wars, which I believe during RVB mk 1 involved entities like noir and privs dec'ing them. Being unable to lock anything during a fight is just not fun, and that goes against the main goal of RVB, which is fun instant pvp, everyone agrees on that. You can still use all the other types of electronic warfare and a bit of ECM is ok (like a Griffin or a BB) when the other side outnumbers yours.

And yes, since exact balancing is not possible you will at times fight outnumbered. There are people jumping solo into small gangs, taking down the entire gang and getting out. That kind of maneuver has not banned.
#4BarrowhitePosted 10/10/2009 5:12:40 PM
But, adding controls and limitations to PvP just ruins the point of it. And if tech 1 ships are encouraged you practically are not losing anything. If your gang fights ECM and everyone is stuck sitting there jammed it is because your gang sucks and is poorly composed.
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Mr.Kipling just launched a nuclear holocaust at third world countries!.... but he does make exceedingly good cakes
#5vonkaverpel(Topic Creator)Posted 10/10/2009 7:35:53 PM
RVB pvp has a goal that is different from goals of other pvp in game and the few limitations that it does have are there to help achieve it. If you derive your fun in pvp mostly from ganking your opponents, griefing them, and winning all the time then yes RVB pvp will seem kind of pointless. If you like the type of fights where both sides type in 'gf' in local afterwards, if you ever found out that you lost but had a ton of fun in process, then RVB is the place to get these kinds of experiences.

The T1 ships are encouraged so that people stay in RVB longer. It is not uncommon to lose 5-10 ships a day. Ultimately people fly what they can afford - there was a player out there killing stuff in a Nightmare, another player lost a faction fitted marauder not so long ago. It is up to you how much you want to risk per fight. But even with T1 ships and modules you lose something as opposed to losing nothing on test server and all your killmails are registered for real. Quite a few players in RVB are very new to the game too and for them even a T1 fitted frigate is a significant loss.

Having rules is against the free spirit of RVB. There are none, only guidelines aimed at giving both sides fun instant pvp. Also did I mention that pvping without getting jammed right at the start of the battle and without having to waste a mid on eccm is just great?
#6ZaodaiPosted 10/10/2009 8:11:57 PM
If you're looking for penalty free PvP, I suggest... uh... any other MMO ever made. Isn't the entire allure of PvP in Eve that there is real loss?

Or at the very least knowing you gave it your best and so did your opponent. Throwing arbitrary rules on it to make it more "fair" penalizes the skilled, defeating the entire purpose of attacking other people. If you just want to see ships explode and pat yourself on the back for a job well done, ratting would do much the same thing.
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#7BarrowhitePosted 10/11/2009 2:22:29 AM
'wasting' a mid on ECCM is just how the metagame is at the moment. Live with it.

More often than not my corp doesn't have the numbers to do ganks when we bust up camps or raid FW plexes, I do not enjoy a fight that I win without a problem. Trying to artificially create fair fights is failure as you should really be relying on your initiative on when to fight, when not to fight, and when you can take down more of them in the process and hopefully get away. RVB takes away a lot of the point of PvP.

Declaring war on RvB though, theres a lot of easy kills to be had in my experience.
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Mr.Kipling just launched a nuclear holocaust at third world countries!.... but he does make exceedingly good cakes
#8vonkaverpel(Topic Creator)Posted 10/11/2009 5:35:33 PM
lol i don't have to live with it Barrow because i'm pvping in RVB now ... i used to fly falcons quite a bit, the old 200km ones and the new 70km ones, so personally i have nothing against ecm, but having been on the giving and receiving end i find it very easy to understand how it can spoil the fun for the other side and that goes against the spirit of this war

The pvp is not penalty-free as some players have lost billions of ISK and hundreds of ships in this war, and tears over it have been very real too. EVE's "real" pvp often progresses into blobfests where it is not the most skilled but the one with most numbers on its side that wins, typically that's the side that has blued-up most of the EVE galaxy. To the contrary when you bring more or less equal numbers, or even smaller numbers, it is the more skilled and organized fleet that wins. You must have not pvped at all Zaodai in this game to say what you have said.

And there is much more to pvp, than just being unable to undock a falcon. Starting from simply what fit you're bringing on your non-falcon ship lol, and going to more strategic aspects such as scouting out your opponents, determining what they have, extrapolating their plan, picking time and place to engage them when they are in disadvantage, or alternatively baiting them into engaging your first, calling right primaries, making correct ewar shots, picking good time to disengage or holding the field and the regrouping for more runs of the above. This is not alliance tournament with points, a stage with boundaries, and a bunch of rules to follow lest you be vaporized by the GMs.

And yes, please come and wardec us. We have 2 third-party wars going live this week, but we always appreciate having more stuff to shoot at. Like Barrow says should be very easy kills so come and bring it guys :)
#9BarrowhitePosted 10/11/2009 6:41:28 PM
Open wars of big alliances is awfully... Public for me. Last time I fought you guys in an alt corp we just declared on Red, might have been blue though... Sat in your vent and jumped you during fleet battles against the other team. 100% efficiency through 3 engagements and avoided your purple ops till war were declared which meant we were far too outnumbered. But that was back in the early days.

Besides, I said easy kills, not very easy kills, it isn't fish in a barrel type kills you get from fighting Privateer Alliance who seem to lack common sense amongst other things ( Apart members of gravediggers, those guys are the only hardcore members ;P)

They get very angry when you use logon traps to destroy their neutral RR which is possibly the most pathetic EVE tactic since WCS and the logoffski.
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Mr.Kipling just launched a nuclear holocaust at third world countries!.... but he does make exceedingly good cakes
#10moving0targetPosted 10/11/2009 8:07:19 PM
When the hell did they make PvP "fair?" One of my more entertaining experiences recently was running around with a fleet of newbies in newbie frigs taking potshots at a large red fleet. A couple of gates later, we played anvil to the real fleets hammer. It wasn't fair to those of us in T1 frigs going up against vastly superior forces and it wasn't fair to the reds being led down a little garden path.

So does RvB attempt to recreate the Napoleonic wars in space?
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