Suggestions for can flipper killer loadout

#1RawnePosted 10/17/2009 11:20:54 AM
I've had some encounter with can flippers and I noticed that they usually fly frigate/AF or desty. usually ignored them or mine using secured container but I thought that I'd build something to try to take them on.

Also, suppose I engage one can flipper, is it possible for his friends/allies to RR him while I'm trying to take him down?

I was thinking of a Thrasher for this(cost about 15M according to Battleclinic):

Gyrostabilizer II
Overdrive Injector System II

1MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Scrambler II
Medium Shield Extender II

Standard Missile Launcher II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II

Comments or suggestions?
#2ZaodaiPosted 10/17/2009 11:38:05 AM
I've seen RR used as a term a lot, and being new, I have no idea what it means. So not to threadjack, but could someone clarify?

The only thing I've been able to guess based on the context usage I've seen is "Remote Repair", which I suppose would make sense. But it doesn't hurt to ask.
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Hey, look! It's not my fault!
It's some guy named "General Protection".
#3BarrowhitePosted 10/17/2009 11:54:20 AM
The best way to kill canflippers is to have a corpmate sitting in a cloaked Pilgrim or on standby in something bigger to help you out if/when you get flipped.

I have killed some expensive ships helping out friends in this manor.

The setup you posted is alright, but heres some things to consider and some changes I would make:

- The can flipper will be be an eligble target from 0km when he steals from you.
- The can flipper knows this, and will probably be packing a scrambler, scramblers nullify MWD's
- You choose when and where the fight starts.

This removes your need for a MWD, drop it in favour of an Afterburner.

The standard missile launcher doesn't bring much to the party. Drop it for a small energy neutralizer which can be the difference between life and death when dealing with an Assault Frigate.

Fit Core Defence Extender rigs for an extra 50% shield, now you can produce these small rigs yourself for a few 100k then theres no reason not to.

Usually I would suggest a tracking enhancer for frig killing but due to the 50% tracking bounus on the Thrasher you will not need it.

Yes their friends can remote rep them, if they do then they become eligble targets to you and anyone who has agression or killrights to them. Although you don't have to worry about that unless their buddies are already on the grid, theres a good chance you will blow him up first.

Beware of Ishkurs, they can burn out of your guns effective range and bring the hurt with their drones. And even in a straight up fight they do more damage, have more hp and a 100dps tank. Any other AF will be a tough fight, but an Ishkur is the only one that can lay down massive amounts of hurt from out of your range.
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#4Rawne(Topic Creator)Posted 10/17/2009 12:54:28 PM
Thanks Barrow! Very helpful advices, as always!

The first time I tried jet canning, I was using my current best ship.. a Vexor. I had remove everything to fit 4 miner I and 5 mining drone I. I kept 5 hammerhead, 1 hob and 1 orgre drone to take care of rats. As I was filling my can and thinking "this is fun and faster than mining in an Ibis", a Thrasher entered the system and jump on my can. So like most noobs I thought: Ggrr No you don't! And launched 5 hammerheads while skipping away, that was my first mistake. Observing from 40km distance, I smile as my drones were going through his structure.. that was my second mistake. That's when 2 of his friends showed up and started remote rep him while he was shooting down my drone one at a time. He then speed up to my ship at an incredible speed, scramble and nos me. That was the end for my poor Vexor. But what a thrill it was! The kind of adrenaline rush you get when you get killed for the first time at Counter-Strike!

Since then, I upgraded to a retriever and I always wanted to take my cold revenge on one can flipper! :P
#5BarrowhitePosted 10/17/2009 4:14:46 PM
He was 40km out? Thrashers top speed is around 2km/s, you had quite a while to get out.

Remember, issue warp then recall drones, if the drones make it back then it is a plus, if they are lost then no biggy. But as you are Vexor capable, you could probably do a better job in a Autocannon vexor with medium energy neuts. Thrasher will work nicely still though.

RR is Remote Repping, it can mean both armour and shields, but armour RRing is far more popular than shield because of a few reasons regarding the fitting and cap reqs of large sheild transfers.

RR can come in many different forms, it could be fitting a medium remote armour rep to repair your drones between complexes in W-space, it could be a specialised Logistics ship or carrier keeping their fleet alive, or in it's most effective form, Spider tanking, where every battleship in the fleet fits 1-2 remote reps and fits for maximum resists with some HP buffer this gives the primary target an absolutely massive tank most fights can be won with 0 losses running a setup like this as it has very few counters and most fleets fit to make neuts and ECM ineffective against them too, it works best with Typhoons, Tempests and Dominix's especially.
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Mr.Kipling just launched a nuclear holocaust at third world countries!.... but he does make exceedingly good cakes
#6Erik212Posted 10/18/2009 2:46:34 AM
Why a Pilgrim if it has bonuses for neuts? I could see a Rapier tackling the flipper instead...
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Another idea I had was the spy/sniper being able to climb into the soldier's rocket launcher and be launched across the map, dealing more damage, but no splash.
#7BarrowhitePosted 10/18/2009 7:51:15 AM
Pilgrim has the drone bay and drone damage bounus where as a rapier does not, and with 2 medium neuts + warp scrambler + web a Frigate will be more immobile than if you sat a few webs on it from far out leaving it's cap and ability to MWD intact.

Also speed is a big factor, you will drop a Frigate much faster with bounused drones than a rapiers guns and unbounused drones. Additionally, a Pilgrim is much better suited to take on any back up he might get.

Although it will be worth seeing what you can do with super ranged webs + TP's + Artillery cannons when the Dominion changes hit, I wouldnt be surprised if you could 1shot interceptors and tech 1 frigates even with just 3 artillery cannons. I know I am looking forward to my Sniper HAC, the Munnin getting more instagib quality.
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Mr.Kipling just launched a nuclear holocaust at third world countries!.... but he does make exceedingly good cakes
#8vonkaverpelPosted 10/18/2009 11:01:01 AM
On your Thrasher setup replace the following:
- overdrive with a second gyrostabilizer or damage control unit, first one will give you more damage output, second one gives a big increase to your effective hit points
- 1mn T2 mwd with cold-gas 1mn afterburner, for reasons already stated plus it is much cheaper
- tech II warp scrambler for J5B warp scrambler, 375 meters shorter but 850,000 ISK cheaper
- standard missile launcher for rocket launcher, your autocannons are short range weapons so compliment them

Instead of small core shield extenders get 2x anti-em screen reinforcer (third rig up to you). This setup will actually give you more effective hit points. Many can flippers will use Rifters armed with EMP. About 40% of damage EMP does is of EM damage type and your shield has 0% base resistance to EM. So if you load out your Thrasher with shield extender and 3x core extender rigs you're going to have a rather big EM hole where you're tanking.

My boyfriend does can flipping almost exclusively now whenever he logs on, and when I showed him this thread he had a good laugh out of it - the part where people are suggesting you guard a belt in a recon ship to kill the riftars, talk about overkill lol. One thing that he is very weary of when he is flipping are players fielding hobgoblin II drones, because those will rip frigates apart and are also very nasty to assault frigs. These are thermal drones and they have higher damage modifier than drones that do other damage types, especially when launched from a ship that gets drone bonuses such as Vexor or Arbitrator. He also does not take well to energy neutralizers, because he runs active repair on his frigate. Unless you try to flip the can back, your advantage is that you can pick when you want to engage the flipper rather than the other way around. You can set up a pvp destroyer to engage frigates and a pvp cruiser to engage assault frigates.

As for RR, with can flipping it is extremely rare. Often people RRing will be from same corporation, sometimes of course they will be unrelated. Pull up can flipper's corp information and set a personal negative standing towards it. Then minimize local and open it up again. See if anybody else in local has a negative minus sign which would denote that they are from same corp and might come to his aid.
#9BarrowhitePosted 10/18/2009 5:06:48 PM
I don't counter-canflip in a recon for the purpose of killing tech 1 frigs :P

People will come can flip in all sorts of stuff, battleships, faction frigates, Electronic Attack Ships, Tech 2 fit cruisers and the such. Those are the sorts of things that are worth killing, and even the tech 1 frigs, we like to keep a 1day alt on standby to suicide their pod if they are older players, we know for a fact we have popped a rifter and gotten his pod destroying 1 highgrade slaveset. Not bad for me and my buddies leaving an alt each idle for people to throw expensive stuff at you if you ask me.

Rocket launchers are attrotious at the moment, A small neut will do much, much more for your ship than a rocket launcher ever would, I can only assume you are trying to make your boyfriends job easier by suggesting one in current metagame :P

From a quick mental number crunch a T2 warp scrambler gets an aditional 600 meters over the J5B when overheated and at a very cruicial range thus it is much more comfortable at sitting just out of normal webrange, for just 850k it's worth every penny. Course losing out on it won't exactly cripple you, it depends on your budget entirely but even if I was on limited funds it would be worth it to me.

It is pretty common knowledge that small EMP shot does 5/9ths EM and 4/9ths Explosive. Not only is fighting a tech 1 frigate in a destroyer starting at 0km already practicallly a garunteed kill, if you do not fight a Rifter you are at a disadvantage compared to if you fit the extender rigs and all you get in return is a small advantage fighting Rifters.

Though I was sure that the base shield resist was raised from 0% with the armour changes... Oh well.

But in reconsideration, it would likely prove effective to fit 2 extender rigs and 1 EM-screen because Rifters and Punnishers are the most popular canflipping frigates, though by no means the only ones used, I see a lot of Tristans and Incursus as well as Rifters using longer range ammo.

Vonk you are lucky in that you have another half who even tolerates EVE let alone plays it, "Just 10 more minutes hun, internet spaceships is srs bizniz." is the bane of my current gal pal. Did try playing even with a girlfriend who played the game before I met her, though hunting down her roaming pvp gangs was considered "unsporting" when I knew what constellation she was in apparently, despite flying solo.
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Mr.Kipling just launched a nuclear holocaust at third world countries!.... but he does make exceedingly good cakes
#10Rawne(Topic Creator)Posted 10/18/2009 5:21:24 PM
Thank you for all your suggestions! Here's a updated loadout based on them:

Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II

Medium Shield Extender II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters

200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
5W Infectious Power System Malfunction

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I

Now, to figure out if this fit is possible..