Final Fantasy XII

sawplo posted...
The RPG genre is niche.

lol

I wandered around a lot, didn't know where to go

lol

While I think I am slightly above average

You think RPG's are niche and you don't know how to use a map... you're a little below average i'd say.

Your average gamer doesn't want all that depth and option

Rubbish. Complete and utter rubbish. Tell me why people would buy Modern Warfare 2 with all it's extra maps and guns when they already own the first one. Tell me why they aren't still playing CoD2. They want more guns, more maps and new features such as kill streaks and perks. They are all the same game but each time around they add more and more content.

Maybe you should try playing Tetris or something. Although that might be tricky because you have to choose where to place the blocks and you're not very capable of making decisions
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FFXII Perfect game Inventory at 1780 Hours - http://youtu.be/NqSwK8L8NIk

No kidding. Look at all the pathetic DLC people buy just because it is there. Costumes, skins, and 10 minute quests. One gun that you use for 10 minutes and never touch it again. Hell...some people play games over simply to wear a new costume the entire time. To say people don't want more options and junk is absurd.

Doesn't mean they aren't the dumbasses you proclaim they are either. All that stuff is junkfood and has no real value to people that explect much more from their games. People buying that stuff too sort of is a detriment to the more popular series like Mass Effect, and FF now with DLC! Just much more crap that would be part of the game in the past as an unlockable is now DLC the first day. Doesn't matter though. It's junk and I wasn't going to buy it anyways.

Really...the kind of games that the "elitist" should be playing are the Indie PC games. These games have to do more for less. If they don't they just aren't going to make any money. They don't have tons of backing, but they can build the game they want as well without someone forcing them to release it on a strict timeline. These games are still out there. They just aren't in the main series that you grew up with anymore.

Final Fantasy really isn't that different than it was. Sure, I don't like XIII all that much for a FF game, but I don't consider it utter trash either. Has a lot of decent qualities, but there are some negatives that make it a low end FF game for me. XII was like the perfect FF for me. Wide open, tons of side quests, tons of weapons and armor, etc. No battle screens. Freedom to choose tactics and fighting. Many things people say aren't there, but they aren't willing to use.

FF hasn't deserted us at all IMO. They still produce high quality games, and frankly they are about the most technically sound video games I have played this gen in a gen full of broken pieces of dogs*** like Skyrim and Fallout (FF XII was actually one gen earlier and had a lot of these qualities, EXCEPT FFXII wasn't as full of filler and garbage like these were IMO. Too much realism isn't always a good thing.). Can't love them all, but I do almost all of them. XIII just didn't do it for me is all, but I platinumed it anyways and found things i liked enough to finish it off. We all have things we like about the series more than others. Sometimes a particular game doesn't have any of them.
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/Kwelity/avila2.jpg

according to you every genre is 'niche' and the "average gamer" as you describe yourself, wouldn't even know what niche is even in the way you describe it

this topic is fun <_<

give 'em hell Shin >_>
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Currently: Skyrim, Master, No Skill Raises, No Followers, No Merchants, No Potions - Perfect Crafting Sheet

The RPG genre is niche.

lol

You really have no clue if you think RPGs aren't niche. I suppose you think Lord of the Rings is mainstream...just because the movies were a success. RPGs have been and always will be a niche genre. They just don't have a broad base appeal.

Seriously, in what world do you live in where magic, wizards, and elves are popular? And you want to say RPGs are mainstream? RPGs try to break away from this fantasy setting, but it is always there in the background. It will never be anything more than a niche genre.

Rubbish. Complete and utter rubbish. Tell me why people would buy Modern Warfare 2 with all it's extra maps and guns when they already own the first one. Tell me why they aren't still playing CoD2. They want more guns, more maps and new features such as kill streaks and perks. They are all the same game but each time around they add more and more content.

First, I would like to point out, they can do that with CoD, can't they? But they sure can't do it with you and your type of games. They can release 6 CoDs for every one FF, and they are all the same. What does that tell you about the average gamer?

But, you really have no reading comprehension whatsoever. I never said people don't want a choice in weapons and such. I have always been talking about an open world and optional quests and minigames. People don't need choices that take them away from the main game. They don't need choices of where to go. They prefer a straight path rather than an open world to explore and figure out.

Come on. Are you really that ignorant? In the battle system, you can choose gambits for your characters. Or how about the option to attack, use magic, etc. I have never spoken out against simple options.

The average gamer doesn't want depth in their options. They don't want a mass world to explore or several directions to go. I have never stated any more than this. Simple choices like what to eat will always exist. It is impossible to take these away. But, your average person likes to be mid level worker, someone who gets told what to do and when to do it. If you don't comprehend this, then why are, easily, more than 80% of jobs out there like this? Average people don't make decisions that require any more than simple thought. And they don't want to.

It applies in games to. Sure, people want to choose what gun they use to blow something up. But, they want the path to that something to be directly in front of them.

Seriously, if you go to that extreme with me, then I can go to the extreme and imply that you think 100,000 characters to play in your party is better than 15. Or a huge world which would take 100,000 hours of in game time to explore is better than a world that has 500 hours of in game time to explore. I have never argued the extreme on choice. It goes without saying that simple choices will always exist.

sawplo posted...
RPGs have been and always will be a niche genre. They just don't have a broad base appeal.

Apparently you're still living in the 80's

Seriously, in what world do you live in where magic, wizards, and elves are popular? And you want to say RPGs are mainstream? RPGs try to break away from this fantasy setting, but it is always there in the background.

Oh i see. There is no such thing as an RPG without wizards and elves? Heh, seriously? What about Marvel Ultimate Alliance? That's an RPG with super heroes. What about Pokemon? Were there wizards in pokemon... must have missed that one. What about Paper Mario with its fat italian plumber or Vampire Masquerade etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc


First, I would like to point out, they can do that with CoD, can't they? But they sure can't do it with you and your type of games. They can release 6 CoDs for every one FF, and they are all the same. What does that tell you about the average gamer?

It tells me they want more choice... that's why they buy MW3 when they already own MW2. MW3 has more choice... doi.

But, you really have no reading comprehension whatsoever. I never said people don't want a choice in weapons and such. I have always been talking about an open world and optional quests and minigames. People don't need choices that take them away from the main game. They don't need choices of where to go. They prefer a straight path rather than an open world to explore and figure out.

The success of open games is against you here mate. Not just the major MMo's, look at the success of games like Red Dead Redemption, Fallout, Assassins Creed, the Grand Theft Auto series etc etc. Please stop posting crap

The average gamer doesn't want depth in their options. They don't want a mass world to explore or several directions to go. I have never stated any more than this. Simple choices like what to eat will always exist. It is impossible to take these away. But, your average person likes to be mid level worker, someone who gets told what to do and when to do it. If you don't comprehend this, then why are, easily, more than 80% of jobs out there like this? Average people don't make decisions that require any more than simple thought. And they don't want to.

But, they want the path to that something to be directly in front of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwHC4TmkBCc&feature=BFa&list=PLD4D6683CD98594AA

I don't even need to say anything, watch the video and maybe you'll finally stop talking s***.

Does this look like a game that has little choice? The maps are huge and their are tons of them. You put 12 players in a corridor and see how many of them are still playing 30minutes later. The reason MW2 is such a massive success is not for the sub-par campaign mode, it is for the online mode. That is a fact. And that is where players build their own classes, create their own playstyles and search the maps to find and kill enemy players. Of all my friends who play the CoD series, only one has played the campaign and he didn't rate it at all.

I'm not backing down on this mate. If you havn't already realized, you are alone in how you think here. You are obviously way out of your depth. You have no idea why CoD is so popular, you have no idea what an average gamer is let alone what they want from their games, you have no idea what niche is and you honestly believe that you represent the average gamer which is ridiculous. You sir, are a very strange man and i have yet to meet anyone who looks for games with as little content and choice as possible. You are an exception to the average gamer and gamers like you have no purpose being on an RPG board.
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FFXII Perfect game Inventory at 1780 Hours - http://youtu.be/NqSwK8L8NIk

From: ShinGouken | #126
The average gamer doesn't want depth in their options. They don't want a mass world to explore or several directions to go. I have never stated any more than this. Simple choices like what to eat will always exist. It is impossible to take these away. But, your average person likes to be mid level worker, someone who gets told what to do and when to do it.

Guess that's why The Sims 2 and 3 sold so badly...

...wait, they sold excellently.
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I fought SuperNiceDog, and SuperNiceDog won.
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The Sims is a casual game, and it's a Simulator not an RPG. Sim games are known to be casual games (minus the obscure ones like Tractor Simulator or Forklift Simulator). The problem is that sawplo keeps insisting that RPGs are niche, where the are not. Seems like it IS niche but only to him.
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They used to say... If Wei has Zhang Liao, Wu has Gan Ning...
But the unfortunate thing for you lot is-- You have run into the both of us!

FF hasn't deserted us at all IMO. They still produce high quality games, and frankly they are about the most technically sound video games I have played this gen in a gen full of broken pieces of dogs*** like Skyrim and Fallout (FF XII was actually one gen earlier and had a lot of these qualities, EXCEPT FFXII wasn't as full of filler and garbage like these were IMO. Too much realism isn't always a good thing.). Can't love them all, but I do almost all of them. XIII just didn't do it for me is all, but I platinumed it anyways and found things i liked enough to finish it off. We all have things we like about the series more than others. Sometimes a particular game doesn't have any of them.

Might that be because Square-Enix is a Japanese company developing for consoles as opposed to being a NA/EU-based company developing for PC and consoles? Quality control and a game being broken in several ways at release may be reacted to very differently in Japan vs. the US & EU. I remember an interview with the developers of the NES game Wizards & Warriors II. They noted how odd it was going from British PC games to the NES because they had to do bug testing. The concept was alien to them. Games were only tested such that they don't crash near the beginning (their game, Solar Jetman, actually sometimes crashed during the ending). Games released everywhere had/have bugs and major glitches, but there's a difference between "Make sure every bug you can find is fixed by release" and "Meh. Just ship it. We'll fix it with a patch".

Where are the wizards and magic in Fallout?

Knights of the Old Republic? Not sure the Force is "magic" when it's pretty much a universal construct. Even then, the game is fully playable without any Force use whatsoever. Ain't no wizardry here. Oh wait, I brought up choice. My bad.

Still. Fallout. You simply cannot play a spellcaster, and fantasy elements are basically nonexistent outside of the obviously hypothetical setting. There is plenty of room for RPGs without fantasy settings.
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