Best classes

#1neiru_3Posted 9/3/2012 2:41:30 PM
I'm still early in the game. B3/B4. My group is in the 7-9 level range. I have a warrior, ninja, warrior, priest, thief, and sorcerer. At what point should I consider changing classes. Two of these characters are NPC's..which I will likely trade out once I can recruit more original characters.
#2PainAmplifierPosted 9/3/2012 10:26:26 PM
neiru_3 posted...
I'm still early in the game. B3/B4. My group is in the 7-9 level range. I have a warrior, ninja, warrior, priest, thief, and sorcerer. At what point should I consider changing classes. Two of these characters are NPC's..which I will likely trade out once I can recruit more original characters.


You should change the warriors to Samurai or Knights as soon as you are able. Even if you replace them in just one more level, the extra spell capability is worth the slower leveling starting around L6. The base stats of your characters determines their growth, which determines when you can naturally change class. Otherwise you have to wait until L5 to access the shop that sells orbs that change class instantly. (And they aren't cheap when you first see them! 50K!) Alternately, if you get lucky, some items can be 'used' to change your class as well.

On the other hand, it's not really worthwhile to change a priest or sorcerer to a Bishop until very late in the game, once you have the majority of your spells learned. And even then it's easier to just swap classes between the priest and sorcerer than it is to deal with making both bishops right away. This is since being a Priest doesn't prevent you from casting sorcerer spells...it just prevents you from *learning* them. (And vice versa)

As for RPC's, You should pay attention to their recruitment requirements. Some of them you only have one chance to recruit. Otherwise, it's only the spellcasting RPC's you want to be wary of, since the last few (Kaza - B8, Virgo B10) come with very low spell levels and building them up that late in the game can be a pain. Well, that and their personal initiative is usually very poor. (Low AGI) For example you get Sara (Priest) about mid way through L1, but her AGI growth is so low she will probably be L99 before you max out her AGI stat. (A good stat will max out *much* earlier.)

The important thing to remember about swapping party members around is how much they will affect your trust. Just replacing an single character with a new one can drop enough trust that you will lose some Allied Action skills. (Temporarily locked.) You will need to grind/fight some to regain that, which is easier in the early game since you aren't relying so heavily on higher level AA's yet.

Therefore, try and pre-pick which RPC's you are going for (class wise) and avoid any 'temp' recruitables and rely on your created characters until the RPC you want can be unlocked. As long as everyone else has high enough trust, your average won't take that big of a hit when you do replace them.
#3Splatterhouse5Posted 9/4/2012 3:06:25 PM
I agree about the warriors being good candidates for changing to samurai or knights. You might already have a katana for a samurai to take advantage of, though the good knight-exclusive equipment doesn't show up until later.

Thieves are pretty bad. They were useful in the old Wizardry games, where lock & trap success was based entirely on your character's abilities, but the button-pressing events this title uses are generally easy to pass; thieves just have to input fewer buttons. You'll probably want to replace your thief with a recruitable character (or possibly change him or her to a sorcerer or ninja, if the stats are favorable).

Bishop's aren't as good as priests in battle, but it can be nice having one around for IDing items. Vigger charges you through the nose for that, and the save-equip-reload workaround just gets too tedious for me to put up with. If you do want a bishop, you'll have to class change to one, since the only recruitable one comes very late and is pretty crap.

Aren't Daniel and Kaza the only permanently missable characters, PainAmplifier? Or do the subplots for Orphe/Aoba and Grace/Wolfe time-out eventually? I guess you could also miss Rui, if you dropped Garcia's quest.

On a somewhat relevant tangent, I tend to have problems with characters with the "Kin" personality (humans who started as neutral). After the difficulty jump on B8, it's likely that some of your characters will be killed on occasion, which is a major hit to kin-peoples' trust. It significant amount of time to build it back up unless your whole party's neutral, and of course, every additional death will set it back further.
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Canon: the juvenile's way of looking at fiction.
#4PainAmplifierPosted 9/4/2012 7:47:42 PM
Splatterhouse5 posted...
Aren't Daniel and Kaza the only permanently missable characters, PainAmplifier? Or do the subplots for Orphe/Aoba and Grace/Wolfe time-out eventually? I guess you could also miss Rui, if you dropped Garcia's quest.


Technically, most of the recruitable characters can be 'missed'...but only if you go out of your way to avoid completing the quests that unlock them or horrifically abuse your trust levels so that they leave. (Like Sara.) As once you beat Bu'Shin you can't recruit anyone new at that point.

So Daniel and Kaza are ones that people miss because you only get one chance, that you can not put off, to save/recruit them. For everyone else you can pretty much take your time dealing with their quests and still recruit them.

Also I think Aoba/Orphe and Virgo can be missed, but you do kinda need to make a 'weak' decision tree choice to miss their recruitment opportunity. And It's been awhile, but I'm not sure the Aoba/Orphe can't be redone to get them recruited just by moving on/off the event location.
#5Max58201Posted 9/4/2012 9:42:51 PM
I honestly think the best class/race for any knight/samurai/ninja to be is a good hobbit warrior. Thieves are horrible. Insane agi but most likely 1 str per lv and low life. A hobbit warrior will still gain roughly the same stats as another race *My human warrior had less hp less agi and same str/life as my hobbit warrior but good hobbits gain trust the fastest whenever you kill beast monsters. And untill the last 3-4 lvs you will find a ton of beasts my hobbit by lv 5 was 2 trust bars ahead of my good humans. I suggest a good elf sorc and priest l. Sarah's horrible agi prevents me from ever liking her. And by the time you find any good sorc RPC you will most likely already have a good arsenal of spells. And they gain trust by ANYONE using magic stones it levels fast.

The only 3 RPC I used were the ninja you get right away Hina the samurai and the ninja you get late in the game.

My final party was 2 samurai 2 ninja and 2 bishops. Honestly I could turn the ninja in front into a samurai for more damage but yah haha. Knights to me are useless the extra hp/def Is not needed And their lack of damage compared to a samurai is something I do not like.

And use orbs for ninjas trying to make a guy evil just hurts trust
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I just wanted to raise his affection, NOT have him lick my nipples
#6PainAmplifierPosted 9/5/2012 5:27:01 AM
Thieves, or any character really, are only bad when you build their stats poorly. Remember that it's more the extra bonus points you stick in a stat than the stats base value that determine how fast one levels up. By rolling for a 'good' amount of bonus points at creation and allocating them wisely you can make a Thief who's tougher than a warrior. (Like Ricardo) It's just the preset/recruitable characters who have such 'classic' bonus distribution that they level so slowly in certain stat areas.

For the most part trust isn't an issue since pretty much everyone goes up with killing things. And evil/good parties aren't an issue either, just remember to follow your leaders alignment when it comes to 'friendly' enemies. If you are an 'Evil' character, attacking friendly monsters will shift any 'good' characters to neutral and vice versa for not attacking if you are good. Also, there are orbs/items that can instantly change a characters alignment to the necessary type and it doesn't affect their inherent trust modifier either. (Kin, Lon, etc.) You just end up with an mixed party of good OR evil characters and the rest Neutral.

Also Sarah does have 'horrible' AGI. But you can work around it for the most part, by just not using her for solo attack spells, and by being careful/cautious you can avoid (for the most part) having to worry about healing someone before the enemies kill them. Which should be avoided by good strategy and use of Allied Actions anyway! Also keep in mind that when a character participates in an AA, they do use the INI of the first character...so have Sara act as the second character in an AA (with say Rui who is *really* fast!) and watch her 'act' far faster than her stats would otherwise allow. This is especially great if you class change Rui to a Sorcerer (to learn the spells, you can switch back after!) and do the Spell AA's with her.

I'll have to double check but my current party uses Kyo, Sarah, Hina, Rui and Virgo. (Going for the full RPC party for this one.) And knights aren't all useless with their lack of base crit. They do better damage when using the AA's that *don't* allow for multiple hits, but just increase base attack. Like Warp/Jump/Hold. Although I don't recommend more than one Knight per party as multiple hits tend to rule in all other situations.
#7Max58201Posted 9/11/2012 7:52:52 PM
I don't agree with the poor stat planning I really think bonus points don't affect growth much that hobbit thief who gained 1 str per lv had 7 bonus points to str.

And yes knights can be better for those 1 hit attacks I rarely used them. Even warp attack I never used except for fun Since by the time you get trust lv 8 you don't really need it anymore. And honestly double attack with 2 samurais is the only st damage move ya need.

Well yes you can get around Sarah's low agi especially with spell assist but having a fast healer after a back attack can be crucial. And you do not get spell assist till later.

Also a thief's high agi isn't that needed a couple lvs and usually the whole party attacks first

Really come once you get spell assist you don't need much more any assisted ja spell at max rank will kill 90% of everything even on the lowest floors and double attack will take out anything else

Also evil hobbits I ment not good
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I just wanted to raise his affection, NOT have him lick my nipples
#8PainAmplifierPosted 9/11/2012 10:29:52 PM
Max58201 posted...
I don't agree with the poor stat planning I really think bonus points don't affect growth much that hobbit thief who gained 1 str per lv had 7 bonus points to str.

Hobbit?! Hobbits are incredibly aweful. Their base stats are terrible. Luck is the biggest dump stat in the game. I don't recommend a hobbit for *any* class in the game.

Also, the game leans pretty heavily towards the older D&D style method of stat handling, which is heavily biased towards the absolute highest and lowest values. So a change from 10 to 12 sees far less of a increase than 16-18 would. A good thief would be any other race than hobbits, with a decent roll for starting bonus points. (17+) For at least 15 in STR, some in Life/Agility and the rest to even out your magic and luck a bit. (Although it's somewhat dependant on if you plan on them being back row or not, as STR in the rear row isn't quite as useful, if your just throwing or assisting all the time.)

I'd really have to go back with multiple parties to check, but I thought that you got extra level up points for a high stat (on creation) and some more for how many bonus points you put into that stat as well. So 7-12 might be +1 for base 12, and +1 for 5pts added to the stat for a total of +2 on level up. It's been a long time since my last no-npc party so I've forgotten a lot of the math I did to optimise my char point allocations.

I do however remember a front row (human) thief leader of one party that was on par with all the RPC fighter characters as far as STR/Damage went.


And yes knights can be better for those 1 hit attacks I rarely used them. Even warp attack I never used except for fun Since by the time you get trust lv 8 you don't really need it anymore. And honestly double attack with 2 samurais is the only st damage move ya need.

You can only double attack with two chars...so what is your third front row char doing? If I don't need to Restrict or Cancel I can have that character use one of the other attack AA's for good damage if he's got a high dam single hit weapon. Works great for those mid levels like Gas Dragons. Double slash with one pair, and Stun Attack with the Knight. I often kill/stun both dragons before they can do anything.


Really come once you get spell assist you don't need much more any assisted ja spell at max rank will kill 90% of everything even on the lowest floors and double attack will take out anything else

That's kinda a general problem with the lowest level dungeon/highest level mobs entirely...they all pretty much resist all magic and even if it doesn't get barriered the HP of the enemy is so high about the only thing that doesn't live is the Ninjas.
#9Max58201Posted 9/15/2012 7:07:28 PM
My hobbit fighters were on par stat wise with my human fighters with equal bonus point distribution. And they gain trust 5x if ya make them evil over any human.

And no to most of the lower lvs resisting all magic the only ones who do are greater demons dragons and giants and quite honestly it's easier just to avoid the dragons and demons since they are more trouble then they are worth and poison giants can be ashed and all others die from a double strike. But no the lower floors have a ton of humanoids and every single one of them die from an assisted maxed ja spell except jateal
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I just wanted to raise his affection, NOT have him lick my nipples
#10thewaynemanorPosted 9/17/2012 1:10:13 AM
Well, there is some truth in the statement about Dragons and Demons. It involves a great deal of hazardous fighting with little return. There are easier ways to level. You need to be sure your party are Level 40 + before entering the Abyss. Anyone who has encountered an Elder Demon knows what I am talking about - you need to amp three times before you can do decent damage and the monster's favourite party trick is to summon another of its kind. When last I played I encountered one and had to kill EIGHT of the things before the encounter finally ended.