Timeline theory (Spoilers for Wind Waker)

#1Aqua_adeptPosted 4/22/2008 2:50:14 PM
I've just been replaying Oracle of Ages for about the fifth time. One thing I did notice for the first time is that the past overworld map has more water and sea on it, with the seas shrinking by the present. What could have caused this?

My idea is that the Great Flood at the beginning of Wind Waker had very far flung effects, flooding much of Labrynna's coastline, whilst totally submerging Hyrule. Ambi's reign would take place some time after Ganondorf's defeat in WW, but still enough for the Great Sea to have an effect.

Its not really that farfetched, coastal parts of England (which Labrynna was based on) would be flooded if arctic glaciers and pack ice melted.

It would also seem likely that it would take 400 or so years for the waters around Hyrule in the Wind Waker to receed thanks to the saplings planted by the Koroks, the same timescale we're looking at for the waters in Labrynna to dry up. Perhaps the growing Maku Tree had some influence in Labrynna.
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"Marth: I will crush you with my mysteriously ambiguous genitalia ."~Yix
#2kirsybuuPosted 4/22/2008 6:03:18 PM
First, if you look at the overworld in detail, the amount of water doesn't change much. The source is the change. In the past, there is a river flowing out of Rolling Ridge, going around the Explorer's Crypt place. In the present, that river dried up, and there is a new river flowing next to Symmetry City down to Lynna City. Outside the overworld, there is a significantly different coastline to the East.

Also, read this:

For a particular spot in the timeline to accommodate the Oracle series, it should meet two main conditions: Ganon must be dead, and the Triforce must be whole in Hyrule Castle. This occurs at least twice in the series.

OoX may occur shortly after TAoL. Both involve an enemy effort to resurrect a dead Ganon and TAoL ends with the reuniting of the Triforce.

OoX may occur shortly after ALttP. They share stylistic elements, similar items, and ALttP easily meets the "Dead Ganon, Whole Triforce" condition.


http://www.zeldawiki.org/Oracle_Confusion

WW takes place 100 years after OoT, and the flooding happened earlier then that. There isn't enough time between OoT and WW for 3+ games to take place. (LoZ, AoL, OoA or ALttP, LA, OoA)
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#3kirsybuuPosted 4/22/2008 6:10:14 PM
Also, Seasons must take place in the past because of Ambi's Husband, so it would have to feel the effects of the flood as well.

To summarize:

It couldn't take place right before, during, or soon after WW because it doesn't fulfill the requirements. OoA takes place either late in the in the Adult timeline or in the child timeline, not right after WW.
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#4ShadnikPosted 4/25/2008 2:41:17 PM
Seasons and Ages happen back to back with each other, either one can come first. (Play the Linked Game)
#5kirsybuuPosted 4/25/2008 5:46:38 PM
Yes, but that does not change anything.

If you play Linked Seasons, you will meet Queen Ambi, who lives in Labrynna's Past.

If you play Linked Ages, you will meet Rosa in the Past.

If you watch the intro of either game, you will know that Link gets teleported to the lands. There is no reason that the almighty Triforce can't send people to the past.
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#6Aqua_adept(Topic Creator)Posted 4/26/2008 11:40:12 AM
I don't think its really to be thought about; its more like a kind of easter egg for those who connected.

I mean, Bipin and family go to Holodrum from Labrynna and vice versa. I suppose they could have stumbled through a portal like Maple did to get to Labrynna's past, I guess.

That or a wizard did it.
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"Marth: I will crush you with my mysteriously ambiguous genitalia ."~Yix
#7G-Force88Posted 4/29/2008 9:25:27 PM
IIRC, when you meet Queen Ambi in Seasons she explains that she asked Nayru to send her to Holodrum. Since we know that Nayru is the Oracle of Ages, it's entirely logical to say that she sent Ambi to the future.

In addition, when you encounter and help out the pirates in the past of Ages, they say that they're going off to Holodrum. They say this regardless of whether you're playing Ages first or second. Likewise, the pirates are always stranded in the desert of Seasons, regardless of whether you're playing Seasons first or second. If the events of Seasons occur in the past, then there's just no way that they can be stuck in the Sea of Storms AND the Samasa Desert at the same time.

As an added bonus, I'd like to point out that Rosa not only shows up in the past on Crescent Island, she also appears in the PRESENT in the Goron Dance Hall. Thus, she can't be used as evidence that Seasons occurs in the past.
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#8kirsybuuPosted 4/29/2008 11:07:01 PM
I see what you mean about Ambi and the Pirates, but Rosa only makes things more complicated. Past and present at once is a bit of an issue.

On the Past island, she says: Hi! Do you remember me? ................ I'm Rosa! You, like, forgot we dated?!? This is my first long trip in, like, forever!

In the Present Goron dance hall, she says: Hi, Link! The Goron Dance is all the rage in these mountains! But the Subrosian Dance is way cooler. These Gorons have a ways to go!. In the Past dance hall, there are already subrosians there dancing who want to do the dance in Subrosia!

Also, the problem of the Linked game secrets. 3 of the Linked Ages secrets are from the Past to Holodrum, and 2 of the Linked Seasons secrets are from the Holodrum to the Past.

For example, Deku scrub in the Past says: Love, love the seed! This secret is all the rage among Deku Scrubs now! Want to hear the rest? -Yes -No Love, love the seed! Next is: (Secret) Can you remember it? -Yes -No The Deku Scrub west of Sunken City in Holodrum loves this secret! I do, too! You should pay him a visit!

Yet a subrosian in the Present says: Oh! A stranger has spoken to me! I must teach you something good! Will you listen? -Yes -No My brother lives in the cave near the three peaks of the the Subrosian Volcanoes in Holodrum's land of Subrosia. If you tell him my secret, he'll give you something good! OK? -OK -Once more Here goes! (Secret) You got that? -Yes -No Say hi to my brother!

These games obviously don't have a definite temporal relationship.
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#9G-Force88Posted 4/30/2008 1:33:30 AM
Gah! Time travel makes everything confusing! Hmm...

First, Rosa. Actually, no, the Subrosians in the past in the dance hall. The fact that they're there and talking about doing the dance in Subrosia doesn't really contradict what Rosa says, in a way. It seems to me that the idea behind this is that the Subrosians in the past learned the dance and took it to Subrosia/Holodrum, where it evolved into the Subrosian dance over time. 400 or so years later(in the present of Ages), Rosa ends up at the Goron Dance Hall and claims that the Subrosian Dance is better. She says this because over the period of time between the past and present of Ages, it's seems highly likely that Subrosian culture simply forgot that they're dance came from the Gorons.

As for how she winds up in the past, it would probably be the same reason Maple shows up in both ages as well, time portals. She could have simply wound up traveling through one at some point, and then another one later on.

That leaves the secrets. Well...mostly, I think they're just confusing side effects of gameplay. Rosa and Ambi and whatnot can be explained reasonably because they're directly relevant to the other game. However, the secrets in general boil down to little more than extra little side quests to give you bonuses as a reward for playing both games. I don't think they should be taken too seriously.

Lastly, what you said earlier about the Triforce being able to transport people through time, I just don't think that's true. As Godly as it is, the Triforce is nothing more than an IMMENSE source of power, wisdom and courage for the person or group of people possessing its parts. It's never been suggested in any other game that the Triforce has inherent Time-Based Powers, and that is just too big of a detail to merely assume in order to fit one's theories. The only known things in the Zelda universe with actual Time-Based Power are the Temple of Time, the Oracle of Ages and the Harp of Ages, and possibly anything else that's been in a game that I may have forgotten.

BUT, this is getting waaaaay off topic at this point, so let's try to wrap it up soon. I have my own Timeline Theory that I've been working on, but I'd like to double check some things before I post it.
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I don't listen to anyone who can't support their claims.