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Thank God the heroics aren't anything like the hell 4.0 heroics were.

#21J_walker6Posted 10/2/2012 9:54:48 AM
First off, people aren't quite getting challenge modes right. Yes there is a time trial to it, but it is ALSO a very difficult version of the heroic mode. Everything hits harder and some bosses even have extra mechanics. Challenge mode difficulties are the same difficulty as BC and 4.0 Heroics. Then on top of that, there is also a timer if you want to push yourself further.

Second, you should be rewarded for your skill. Absolutely. That is why there are rewards for doing challenge mode dungeons on bronze, silver and gold or doing heroic mode raids.

I feel there must always be a hard and easy version of all content, so that all content is accessible to see for lore and gameplay purposes.

In cataclysm 4.0, all the heroics were too difficult meaning people couldn't see Heroic Deadmines or Heroic SFK. Then they became all to easy and it just meant that there was no point to doing them once you'd finished them once. Both of these scenarios are poor.

So with MoP, they have normal mode to do while leveling, they have heroic mode to see the content, and they have challenge mode to give yourself a challenge and really strive for the rewards.

With raiding, they have LFR to see the content. Then they have normal for guilds to work together and overcome challenges and they have heroic mode for people to show the best of the best of their organized PvE skills.
#22HellsControllerPosted 10/2/2012 9:55:39 AM
GateCaptain posted...
Yeah that's one thing i HATED in Cata. You would receive damage constantly like they just wanted to make the healer have something to do. OR the ground was evil and hated the players.


The ground does hate players dude. It's been an add since the game came out, requiring multiple tanks at times during an encounter.
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#23TheshamenPosted 10/2/2012 10:12:48 AM
I think the problem with heroics is they have the difficulty striated like this

Normal Dungeon-Heroic Dungeon-Raid-Heroic Raid

IMHO it should be Normal Dungeon-Normal Raid-Heroic Dungeon-Heroic Raid

Atleast in terms of gear/ilevel dropped
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#24aLINKinthechainPosted 10/2/2012 10:47:36 AM
Theshamen posted...
I think the problem with heroics is they have the difficulty striated like this

Normal Dungeon-Heroic Dungeon-Raid-Heroic Raid

IMHO it should be Normal Dungeon-Normal Raid-Heroic Dungeon-Heroic Raid

Atleast in terms of gear/ilevel dropped


I agree with this: it should be all normals followed by all heroics and gear should scale that way. But if you implemented this system using the current dungeon progression, people would be angry about having to run the 4 nm dungeons over and over again until they manage to pull a raid grp together. It would be very boring.
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#25SimplyQuidPosted 10/2/2012 1:09:06 PM
frozen_flames posted...
I know right, god forbid you actually have to put any effort at all into playing the game /sarcasm

4.0 heroics were awesome, finally a challenge without having to put together a whole raid, they managed to keep you on your toes without being impossible to pug


Seriously, I was sad when they changed it. I liked having to work for a dungeon.
#26J_walker6Posted 10/2/2012 1:12:40 PM
aLINKinthechain posted...
Theshamen posted...
I think the problem with heroics is they have the difficulty striated like this

Normal Dungeon-Heroic Dungeon-Raid-Heroic Raid

IMHO it should be Normal Dungeon-Normal Raid-Heroic Dungeon-Heroic Raid

Atleast in terms of gear/ilevel dropped


I agree with this: it should be all normals followed by all heroics and gear should scale that way. But if you implemented this system using the current dungeon progression, people would be angry about having to run the 4 nm dungeons over and over again until they manage to pull a raid grp together. It would be very boring.


In order to do this, you would run into one of two problems.

First, you would need different dungeons and heroic dungeons, instead of heroic dungeons just being heroic versions of normal dungeons. Because not many people would want to do dungeons over and over, then do new content in raids and enjoy that, and then go BACK to do doing the same old, but harder, dungeons to gear up, and then go back to the same old raids just on a harder version.

So if we did have different dungeons, expansions would either take quite a bit longer to make or you have less content. Currently there are 9 dungeons at level 90. 4 normal, 9 heroics. You would instead have 4 normal and 5 heroic. A bit rough and definitely not able to be estimated like that correctly, but yeah :).
#27IdTheDemonPosted 10/2/2012 2:21:53 PM
From: Genocet_10-325 | #010
Kovalchuk_ posted...
Guess you didn't play in BC.


I did, and here's the difference: In TBC, the heroics seemed easier than in 4.0 cata because in 4.0 cata, people were still in the "heroics are faceroll" like in WotLK mindset. In TBC, that attitude didn't exist yet. It was good while it lasted but once it goes away it has to go away forever.


I can actually agree with this. The mindset of the average player in Vanilla and TBC in dungeons was: Make sure **** is CC'd, then attack the tank's target.

Wrath created the "Aoe everything down lulz" mentality that eventually plagued everyone.


Anyways, to be on topic I LOVED 4.0 Heroics because they reminded me of TBC heroics. CC was needed, you couldnt goof around and aoe and some of the bosses were more than dps dps dps and dps. That's why I love Challenge Modes and as long they do not get nerfed and obtaining the gear has some form of prestige, then there's no reason why all the types of players (casuals, semi dedicators and hardcore pvpers/pvpers) shouldn't be happy.
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#28Orestes417Posted 10/2/2012 2:43:38 PM
BC heroics were great because, along with the difficulty, you had to hand assemble a group who weren't mouthbreathing morons. Back in those days I could rattle off a list of people and guild tags on server you either wanted to run with or wanted to avoid entirely. LFG screwed that all up and turned Cata heroics into hell. Now we get loleasy heroics and challenge modes that resemble old school heroics. Life's good
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#29B1g_ClownPosted 10/2/2012 3:54:45 PM
Try doing heroics with a healer that does no more than 15k hps or 2 dps that only somehow manage 10k dps.

Then come back and make this thread.
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#30noimnoturdaddyPosted 10/2/2012 4:11:34 PM
Ness0123456789 posted...
My god, something for everyone!

So if you're a "hardcore" you should only be playing two nights a week when you can get groups together, and if you're a casual there's all this content for you to LFD that's so easy they might as well be giving people gear.

Makes sense.
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This is great! I will use Heroin on the weekends now!