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Think anyone could lend a hand with Council of Elders? (low dps)

#1Lightning BoltPosted 3/10/2013 3:59:39 PM
We've been wiping on the fight for a couple days now, and it's starting to look hopeless. On Horridon at least we were learning each go and the wipes were clear mistakes, but here it's clear that our dps is just too low to kill the fight. Many of the non-derp wipes are to Dark Power, or to us overextending to beat Dark Power.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e5veeeukich6ta3s/sum/damageDone/

Am I missing something, or does it feel like none of the dps are really pulling their weight? I mean, I know vengeance is lulzy and it's certainly no matter of skill on my part, but I shouldn't be topping the dps meters, not with the relatively low tank damage on this fight...
I'm scanning through the logs of other groups that have killed it, and they're doing upwards of 150k dps, and no less than 100k that's for sure.

We tried 2-healing for a couple of attempts, but the raid just got eaten alive. (could probably do with some better healers, but our two awesome Priests are away)
Honestly, at this point I'm half considering doing the fight in dps gear, since I'm the top dps by a mile and I'm not even gearing for it. But since I'm so rarely on the one that's empowering, that wouldn't do a lot of good.

So yeah, anyone have tips to maximize dps? Or if you know someone's class and can see a way for them to do better.
We try to keep them together for cleaving if it doesn't put us at risk of a Loa heal or the like. We have the other tank keeping aggro on Mar'li mostly with heals (da hell is with Prot Pally healing aggro anyways? never knew how ridiculous that was until this tier, lulz) and he comes to help out dps. But we're still being blown up by Dark Power.
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One day dude, I'm just gonna get off the bus, and I'm gonna run in the woods and never come back, and when I come back I'm gonna be the knife master!
-The Rev
#2twinslashPosted 3/10/2013 4:13:36 PM
Don't have any tips on your dpsers since i'm a mage and you don't have one. But the way my guild had to do it was.

1 tank
2 heal
7 dps

We all nuked Sul until the first loa spirit came out and then switched to frost man after that. and left our rogue and warrior on Sul. Giving us just enough dps to kill Sul by the time he empowers so there was no adds, Sul is also the main damager out of the four of them so after he's dead the healers didn't have much of a problem (other than when kazra'jin was empowered for obvious reasons).


http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-wyalm3um0aq1wtx8/sum/damageDone/?s=8333&e=8732

that's not our kill, guess our raid leader wasn't logging for the kill, but that was our general dps and whatnot other than the paladin going ret and our warrior going fury.
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#3Lightning Bolt(Topic Creator)Posted 3/10/2013 4:27:03 PM(edited)
From: twinslash | #002
1 tank
2 heal
7 dps


I considered 1-tanking, but honestly we do more dps than the dps'ers. >_> I know I know, it would just stack more of the vengeance on one tank so it'd be a net gain, but still.
How would you deal with the King with only 1 tank? 1 tank, stunned for 15 seconds, taking the King (still doing frost damage), Mar'li, and Sul (after interrupts), and only two healers... sounds ****ing un-healable. (then again your healers are substantially better than mine)
You've got two tanks in that log so I can't just look. I am curious about that.

We have noticed that Sul is the main danger, but hilariously enough the adds are absolutely zero problem. We theorize that their aggro tables are accessible even while they're just quicksand, because as soon as they spawn they make a ****ing beeline for our Prot Pally and no one can shake them off.

People have got cooldowns at the start though, staying on Sul might be worthwhile... we've never gotten him below 30% though so that wouldn't have made a difference in our pulls. Thanks for that tip though, no doubt we're pushing the King harder than we need to.

(too many parentheticals)
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One day dude, I'm just gonna get off the bus, and I'm gonna run in the woods and never come back, and when I come back I'm gonna be the knife master!
-The Rev
#4AceronPosted 3/10/2013 8:37:56 PM
Hmm, odd, before we switched to starting on Sul, we found that the living sands locked onto our healers and we had the hardest time pulling them off.

But yeah, we got them down when we opened on Sul, and left our warrior on him full time to minimize the chance of him getting empowerment. He got one empowered phase, and died right after.
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Not me, that believes in you. Believe in you that believes in yourself. - Kamina, TTGL
#5twinslashPosted 3/10/2013 10:01:50 PM
as for dealing with the frost guy with only one tank, we had a druid tank and she was able to pop cooldowns when he does his stacking freeze attacks and is able to dodge enough so she dosn't get enough stacks to be stunned, although she did once, and just got pain suppression and healed though it.
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http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/laughing-skull/Elementstorm/advanced
#6BobTDonutPosted 3/10/2013 10:06:04 PM
Have DPS focus on both Sul and the empowered target. Sul should be being DPS'd to the absolute maximum until the empowered target HAS to be DPS'd the 25% threshold as to not 100 energy. This means you have ~60 seconds to drop that the empowered target to around 22% damage, and get as much damage as you can on Sul. The Frost guy seems to be empowered first usually, so go with him + Sul on one tank, and the High Priestess on the other. Once Sul is empowered, just focus him down. Forget the rest for the time being. I don't know how often the Priestess casts, so make sure you have the proper amount of interrupts on her.

From there, once Sul is down, you should focus on knocking out the next lowest between the Frost guy and the Priestess, applying the same process of DPSing that target down as much as possible before pushing into the new empowerment target. If that target is empowered, just burn them down. At this point, you want to also make sure that you are putting enough DPS on the other two as well, so you aren't stuck with two up with too much health and can't burn the rest of it before 100 energy.

Lust should be used at the start when both Sul and the Frost guy are tanked together, and again focus on Sul and cleave on Frost, just making sure to be ready to push the 25% damage when needed on Frost.
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#7Lightning Bolt(Topic Creator)Posted 3/10/2013 11:45:48 PM(edited)
From: Aceron | #004
Hmm, odd, before we switched to starting on Sul, we found that the living sands locked onto our healers and we had the hardest time pulling them off.

Well our Prot Pally heals nearly as much as our healers, but his heals have a threat modifier. (While I heal MORE than many of our healers, but my heals don't count because ****ing Blizz)
Happened on Horridon too; anything that spawns will automatically aggro him. It's a larger part of our strategy than it ought to be, but then again nothing wrong with taking advantage of class perks.

From: twinslash | #005
is able to dodge enough so she dosn't get enough stacks to be stunned

Das hax. >.>

From: BobTDonut | #006
applying the same process of DPSing that target down as much as possible before pushing into the new empowerment target.

The problem with that strategy, and believe me we've been trying for that, is that we don't have enough dps to break the possessed person out even if we start on them immediately.
We even save Bloodlust for Sul's phase because by then people are out of cooldowns and won't be able to break him out regardless. God knows what we'd do if we ever made it farther than that since they'd start using Dark Power quicker.

Our raid dps is 150k below the median kill dps on WoL, and a third of that is tank dps which isn't always on the empowered target. That's why I'm here, because we know the "traditional" strategy quite well, but our dps is too low for any kind of adaptation, and I wanted to see if people had ideas before we just called it a wall and I get bitter at slackers who are still in blues.

All I can think of is to push harder for us to 2heal it, but the healers just couldn't keep us up when we tried, and we'd still be well below the median with another baddie dpsing.
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One day dude, I'm just gonna get off the bus, and I'm gonna run in the woods and never come back, and when I come back I'm gonna be the knife master!
-The Rev
#8B1g_ClownPosted 3/11/2013 12:32:57 AM
Sorry, can't help with the topic at hand because my guild hasn't downed horridon yet. But how much dps was your raid doing on the first boss? I ask only to know if my guild has the dps for when we reach this fight.

My rad group we had one 145k, two 100-115k, and three 70-90k.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjJi5xhAOzQ
#9MajinUltimaPosted 3/11/2013 1:15:38 AM(edited)
The way our 25man handled it was:

- 1 Rogue + WW Monk on Sul for interrupting Sand Bolt, 1 tank (swapping with Malakk)
- 1 Tank on Malakk (swapping with Sul tank as needed)
- 3 Paladins on Mar'li (no actual tank on her, one or more of the Rets kept aggro), interrupting her as needed but primarily also rotating Fist of Justice on the Loas
- Melee DPS on empowered councilor
- Ranged DPS on loa whenever it spawned, back to empowered councilor
- Mar'li was the first to drop (doesn't hurt our Rets are often among our top dps) and the fight became a breeze at that point
- Dark Power rarely occured (most commonly on berserker guy)
- We got less skiddish about DPSing into berserker's Overload, which was the highest source of damage taken for many of our raiders, it sucks but be sure your raiders aren't playing more cuatiously than needed against that mechanic

Checking our world of logs for the encounter...
- Average DPS was ~90-100k, a few outliers over/under that range (our Ele shamans were 83k and 77k, but I was doing very bad with multi-flame shocking and had to chase the stupid berserker guy a lot)
- Fight was 6-healed (we'd be torn between 2 or 3 healing in 10man), with average HPS 40-55k
- Dark Power was also about 10-15% of damage on most players, it happened but often not for long, and most commonly on berserker guy simply because he'd charge cross-room, outranging several of our players

Did a 10man followup that down Tortos, but Magaera proved to be a very harsh gear check. We hope to repeat 4/12 and get our 25man some good cracks at Magaera. Horridon's the hardest of the first 4 imo.

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#10Lightning Bolt(Topic Creator)Posted 3/11/2013 2:23:35 AM
B1g_Clown posted...
Sorry, can't help with the topic at hand because my guild hasn't downed horridon yet. But how much dps was your raid doing on the first boss? I ask only to know if my guild has the dps for when we reach this fight.

My rad group we had one 145k, two 100-115k, and three 70-90k.


I uploaded logs for that as well, you can navigate from the link I posted, or just:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/xb60ss9doz3dhmgi/sum/damageDone/?s=1158&e=1433

On the whole, with the 40% buff we were doing as much damage as we should be doing buffless on this fight. >.>
We probably could have pushed way more with practice, but the fight is such a joke that we killed it before we even bothered trying to eek out all we could. I barely stood in the water because I wanted to be ready for Static Wound, for example.

You'll probably be in the same situation we are once you get to the third boss, unless you take so long on Horridon you gear up significantly before getting here.


MajinUltima posted...
- 3 Paladins on Mar'li (no actual tank on her, one or more of the Rets kept aggro), interrupting her as needed but primarily also rotating Fist of Justice on the Loas


Seems unnecessary. Mar'li isn't really a threat and the vengeance she provides is valuable. If it works for you it works, gratz, but I don't really see us being able to split our dps as much as you have.

That said, your dps is only 10-15k higher than ours. How high were your tanks? If I carry a bit more weight (haste reforge yay!) we might be able to pull through if you were able to.
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One day dude, I'm just gonna get off the bus, and I'm gonna run in the woods and never come back, and when I come back I'm gonna be the knife master!
-The Rev