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Ten reasons why Vanilla WoW was worse than current WoW.

#1WesternWizardPosted 3/15/2013 10:55:44 AM
(1) Hybrids healed, warriors tanked, everyone else DPS'd with their cookie cutter build.

You couldn't tank raids as a paladin, because your mana would run out. DPS was laughable from the other hybrids, and they were forced to heal. There were very few viable off-specs for any classes, but none in the real endgame raiding. Therefore, if you could heal, you healed, if you wanted to tank, you went warrior, otherwise, you DPS'd. Modern WoW has much more options. Plus, all DPS specs are viable in raiding, unlike then, were only one or two at best were, for pure DPS classes.

(2) Itemization was awful.

Why would plate leggings have +15 spirit, +14 agility? Things like that were very common, especially with quest rewards. It is like the developers weren't even thinking when they designed items. They FINALLY clued into this at Naxx, when all the gear was properly itemized (for the most part, with a few key exceptions).

(3) No looking for raid, no looking for dungeons, not even cross-realm battlegrounds, or battlegrounds at all for a good chunk of it.

This meant if you wanted a group, you had to wait for literally up to an hour, if not more, in chat channel, hitting an advertising macro every 5 minutes. This was boring as all get out. Then you had to travel to the dungeon, and clear the elites just to get in. If anyone sucked, left, or ninja looted, you had to run ALL THE WAY BACK to the city to recruit a new member, or harass people with whispers to fill the role the player left. Couple this with that fact most dungeons were longer, your gear was worse, so they took longer (itemization/no heirlooms/guild perks), which meant you were better off skipping dungeons till nearly max level, unless you had a solid group of people you could rely on.

Even at endgame, it was a pain in the ass finding groups for content. Oh, and raids? Even worse. 40 man raids meant that you could wait for an hour, if not more, to get the whole raid at the raid, buffed, and ready. Even then, you'd get 1/3'd afking randomly throughout it. Welcome to vanilla WoW! Finally, battlegrounds. Yeah, you had to que at your major city, and on low population realms, you could wait up to an hour, if not longer, just like dungeons, to get a game. This wasn't fun or easy, unlike modern queing from anywhere, and getting a game in less than 30 minutes, any time of the day.

(4) The honor system was horrible.

If you wanted to get any PvP gear at all, you had to grind hardcore for hours on end, weeks at a time. You could be horrible at PvP, but if you had no life, and played 16 hours a day, you'd get GM/HW, just by sheer honor income. This meant that many top-geared players, actually sucked at PvP. If you wanted PvP gear, you had to grind for it. If you didn't have PvP gear? You'd get owned by those who had it, even high tier raiding gear would crush you. Also, dishonorable kills... these were a nightmare. Want to raid the enemy city? Better not AoE any of those civilians, or your raiding party disbands, and you are left with severely crippled honor gain for quite some time. Get too many, and kiss advancing goodbye.

(5) Raiding was tiered, which is a huge design flaw.

If you wanted to do Naxx, you couldn't just get pre-raid heroic gear like now, and go straight for it, no, you had to do all the other raids, MC, BWL, ZG, AQ, etc, before it. This meant that players who started late were screwed, as few people ran that old content (remember you need 40!), and meant if you wanted to stay active, you had to play hardcore to catch up, or start from when the game launched. This problem went on to TBC and beyond, but it was most notable here.
#2Ulyaoth74Posted 3/15/2013 11:02:31 AM
(6) BG queues were 2 hours long.
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#3WesternWizard(Topic Creator)Posted 3/15/2013 11:02:40 AM
(6) Drama could ruin your career.

If you had a personal problem with someone in a guild, and it spilled out, you could get blacklisted from an entire server's raiding guilds. Drama was horrible, and you couldn't server transfer to get away from it. This was not fun or interesting, it just fed injustice. How many good raiders were blacklisted because they had a problem with the guild leader rewarding nepotism over merit? Lots, I wager.

(7) No mounts, no breaks.

1 hour hearthstones, no mounts till 40 (even then only 60%), a level 60 epic land mount (100% speed), would cost a fortune. What did this accomplish? Nothing! All it did was waste your time running from point A to B. It didn't add any challenge to the game, it just made you spend more time to do anything, which was what vanilla was all about. Making you take a long time to do anything, without increasing the difficulty one iota. There were also far less graveyards, and no spirit speed enhances, aside from wisp form for night elves, which meant if you died, you'd spend a good 5 minutes returning to your corpse, even more in many zones.

(8) Bad designed quests/elite mob ganking.

You had elite quests, elite mobs, randomly tossed in the gameworld. This meant you could be happily leveling, when all of a sudden a Son of Arugal or Mor'Ladim would pop out and instagib you. Then you had to run all the way back to your corpse, which again, was a chore. Plus, you had quests sending you all around the world, and there was no rhyme or rhythm to it. It was very frustrating without quest tracking, meaning you had to either read a website like thottbot or a user guide to find quests, or just explore for them.

(9) Spell ranks, weapon skills, reagents.

All these things just made everything take a lot longer to do, and often were extremely frustrating. Run out of arrows, hunter? You are screwed in that raid. Get a new weapon at level 27? Oh wait, you have to pay 10 silver to learn it, run across the world to learn it, and then swing it on level 5 boars for an hour to get it up to speed where it can be used, without missing 90% of the time. Spell ranks were even worse, as the level or two before you got a new spell rank, your damage as a caster would drop MASSIVELY in relation to mob health, so you'd cast twice as much spells, which was just tedious and difficult.

(10) Less content.

Probably the only real argument that needs to be made. You didn't have Northrend, Outland, the Cata zones, and Pandaria. Far less things to do, no pet battles, archaeology, achievement points, not nearly as much vanity gear, or fishing events in Northrend, updated Darkmoon Faire, etc.
#4Wyrmwarrior5Posted 3/15/2013 11:12:10 AM
While I don't agree on some points (I personally like a tiered raiding system, since my biggest problem with WotLK/Cata were that when a new raid came out, all of the others ones were instantly forgotten and never done again), it's a fairly good list.
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#5WaffIeElitePosted 3/15/2013 11:17:21 AM
#1. Truth. Class/spec imbalances were bad.

#2. Half true. Original release design had classes doing more than one role, and those items were effective for soloing/5man dungeons, but during raids, you did your job and only your job. Growing pains in design.

#3. That was a good thing for PVE. It separated the ADD garbage kids from those who actually were disciplined and wanted to get somewhere. The "1/3 AFK raids" were the garbage months-behind guilds that might have managed to clear BWL by TBC's release. The skilled guilds cleared/were working on Naxx when TBC launched, and that was the golden age of raiding.

#4. True. I watched some friends do the Grand Marshal grind, and most of the people who did make it, ended up exploiting account sharing and win trading, just due to a broken system.

#5. Tiered raiding was better. It meant nobody getting carried in later raids, you earned your spot because you worked for it. Finding quality apps was easier because you knew that someone who was two tiers behind was probably not worth it.

#6. False. Drama is caused by people, and not any fault of the game. Newer expacs have killed server community to the point of not even recognizing players/guilds. People earned a reputation, good or ill, and that stuck with them and helped/hindered them. I had (And still have) a stellar reputation among the guilds I tanked for, and was one of the few who got along with guilds that were at odds with each other. I didn't make problems.

#7. False. The journey is the destination, so to speak. Flying mounts did nothing but damage the game. Hell, try Skyrim with realistic needs mods, no fast travel, and a hypothermia/exposure mod. It breathes life into the game, and it's what WoW used to be like to an extent. You knew the world, you knew the shortcuts, and it felt immersive.

#8. False. A sense of danger was good, and you had to pay attention. Back then, an elite was a challenge. Now, you round up as much and zerg it down as efficiently as possible with no threat of death. Poor design these days, it's practically impossible to die in the wilderness.

#9. Debatable, but I say truth. Ease of life things like lack of weapon skills and such is nice, but there's something to be said about preparation and reagent hunting (If it wasn't all vendor bought, you had to do something to find it) for immersion.

#10. Debatable, but I say truth. PVE-wise, content was there if you hadn't cleared it, which was 99.8% of the population. Now there's tons of minigames and such to do, which are awesome. The new little features are definitely a plus.
#6WesternWizard(Topic Creator)Posted 3/15/2013 11:18:49 AM
Wyrmwarrior5 posted...
While I don't agree on some points (I personally like a tiered raiding system, since my biggest problem with WotLK/Cata were that when a new raid came out, all of the others ones were instantly forgotten and never done again), it's a fairly good list.


The fundamental problem with tiered raiding is that if you are late to the party, you can forget ever seeing the top raids.

Also, when a new expansion comes out, the previous expansion raids become forgotten, even with tiered raiding, so your point doesn't address that.
#7Wyrmwarrior5Posted 3/15/2013 11:21:54 AM
WesternWizard posted...
Wyrmwarrior5 posted...
While I don't agree on some points (I personally like a tiered raiding system, since my biggest problem with WotLK/Cata were that when a new raid came out, all of the others ones were instantly forgotten and never done again), it's a fairly good list.


The fundamental problem with tiered raiding is that if you are late to the party, you can forget ever seeing the top raids.

Also, when a new expansion comes out, the previous expansion raids become forgotten, even with tiered raiding, so your point doesn't address that.


The thing is, I agree that you shouldn't be able to instantly jump up to the top. Just look at BC, even toward the later days of the expansion, there were still plenty of people who had tier 4/5 guilds. I don't think everyone should instantly be able to show up and shoot up to the top, because I feel like they should work their way up first. But that's just my personal belief.

Irrelevant, really. Everything about a previous expansion basically becomes forgotten (Other than having to level through some of the zones, which most people end up dreading), but that's after the expansion is over. When the expansion is still going, I think that most of its content should remain relevant, because that's still the current thing. Sure, forget about it when that time of WoW is over, but when that stuff is still the in thing, it should still be done.
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#8Wyrmwarrior5Posted 3/15/2013 11:25:25 AM
WaffIeElite posted...
[Text]


Why are some things debatable in your eyes, and some just flat out truth/false? I would highly argue that there is nothing fun about having to go a long difference without a mount. One of my biggest problems as a new player back in the day was that getting anywhere just sucked. Like at first it would be "yay going on an adventure!!", but after you've been running for 10 minutes and you're still nowhere near your destination, that excitement quickly fades. And if anything I feel flying mounts have added a lot more exploration options, since often there are little out of the way places that you can't reach without flying, and I love going to those spots.

I mean that's just my opinion, but it seems silly to flat out say that some points are true/false when most of the points are debatable.
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#9WesternWizard(Topic Creator)Posted 3/15/2013 11:28:33 AM
WaffIeElite posted...
#2. Half true. Original release design had classes doing more than one role, and those items were effective for soloing/5man dungeons, but during raids, you did your job and only your job. Growing pains in design.


Which would only apply if the gear had say +9 strength, +5 stamina, +7 intellect, for say a paladin who would tank, DPS, and heal. But agility and spirit is useless for any role as a plate character, even back then.

#3. That was a good thing for PVE. It separated the ADD garbage kids from those who actually were disciplined and wanted to get somewhere. The "1/3 AFK raids" were the garbage months-behind guilds that might have managed to clear BWL by TBC's release. The skilled guilds cleared/were working on Naxx when TBC launched, and that was the golden age of raiding.


How is it good waiting for hours just to play the game? I'm not an ADD garbage kid, but I don't like sitting in a city, hitting a macro every 5 minutes, while watching TV in the background. Also, unless you started raiding ASAP, you were forced to go through the garbage guilds, because of tiered raiding.
#10WesternWizard(Topic Creator)Posted 3/15/2013 11:28:40 AM
#5. Tiered raiding was better. It meant nobody getting carried in later raids, you earned your spot because you worked for it. Finding quality apps was easier because you knew that someone who was two tiers behind was probably not worth it.


Again, no it wasn't, and your attitude is precisely why it wasn't. It was assumed a new player wouldn't be worth it, which means you couldn't advance beyond the garbage guilds, realistically, just by starting late. It meant that the small 1%ers who started the game when it came out, and raided together at the start, made it, not because of skill or anything like that, simply because they started early and progressed at the right time. This prevented late starters, which is horrible game design, for obvious reasons. And elitism that is based on stupidity, not actual meritocracy, is what hinders a game, and is why only 1% raided. Because raiding has never taken much skill. Even heroic raiding, original Naxx, is just about knowing encounters, gearing properly and speccing properly, and then hitting buttons in a sequence. It takes much, MUCH less skill to heroic raid or do original Naxx than it does to compete 1v1 in a Starcraft pro league, or Quake 3 at pro level.

#6. False. Drama is caused by people, and not any fault of the game. Newer expacs have killed server community to the point of not even recognizing players/guilds. People earned a reputation, good or ill, and that stuck with them and helped/hindered them. I had (And still have) a stellar reputation among the guilds I tanked for, and was one of the few who got along with guilds that were at odds with each other. I didn't make problems.


You have an idealistic and wrong notion here. Drama is caused when people with different ideas enter the same space. You make it sound like all reputations were fairly handed out by meritocracy, which isn't/wasn't and never will be the case.

#7. False. The journey is the destination, so to speak. Flying mounts did nothing but damage the game. Hell, try Skyrim with realistic needs mods, no fast travel, and a hypothermia/exposure mod. It breathes life into the game, and it's what WoW used to be like to an extent. You knew the world, you knew the shortcuts, and it felt immersive.


I don't agree with flying mounts persay, but slowing down the travel didn't improve immersion that much, so much as slow everything down. I don't see how taking 60% or 100% longer to get somewhere adds any realism to the game, considering mounts are part of the lore.

#8. False. A sense of danger was good, and you had to pay attention. Back then, an elite was a challenge. Now, you round up as much and zerg it down as efficiently as possible with no threat of death. Poor design these days, it's practically impossible to die in the wilderness.


Mostly it just meant you'd have to do a corpse run every so often. Being aware of your surroundings did help, but what point does it have having a mob you cannot beat, randomly wander at you? You can still die if you play without looms, and are new, quite easily, especially at low levels.

#9. Debatable, but I say truth. Ease of life things like lack of weapon skills and such is nice, but there's something to be said about preparation and reagent hunting (If it wasn't all vendor bought, you had to do something to find it) for immersion.


It did add immersion, but it made it much more tedious to do anything.