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Do low level instances take any skill?

#1BlackSparrow720Posted 3/20/2013 9:26:13 PM
This is my first time back in a while and I was tanking (or supposedly tanking) shadowfang keep. I realized that the group mainly just blasted through the instance without any slow down. Kind of a shock after not playing consistently since BC.
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"Jesus was black, Ronald Reagon was the devil, and the government is lying about 911" -Huey Freeman
#2mutation10101Posted 3/20/2013 9:32:54 PM
You can solo them with a few classes so.... no.
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10-6-12 The day LoL kept crashing to save the wards.
#3bstbllPosted 3/20/2013 9:37:01 PM
No.


The hardest thing about low level instances is finding your way through LBRS when you haven't been there since vanilla. Hell, there aren't any 5-man instances that take skill anymore, even at 90. Unless you're in a group that's doing BC heroics at 70 or something, but I don't know why you'd bother.

95% of the time, my groups don't say a word and just chain pull until we get our valor. Pretty boring, but there's no challenge in them anymore (unless you're going for some of the achievements).
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So basically communists are druids. -Gestapoid
#4DawnshadowPosted 3/20/2013 9:49:11 PM(edited)
Basically, no. SFK is actually exception; it's VERY hard to heal for its level depending on the class. I've had newbie healers without heirlooms (in full greens) need help from a hybrid in some of the boss fights, because, despite doing everything right, they just couldn't outheal the damage. The revamped Scholomance is also moderately difficult.

The problem isn't the instances-- the ones that haven't been revamped are the easiest instances in the game, particularly the BC ones, and the vanilla dungeons changed for Cata and Mists are notably more difficult than their peers.

There are three issues. First of all, player characters are MUCH stronger at baseline than they were two or three expansions ago. Secondly, gear is better-- most of the nonsense itemization, like agility/spirit "tanking" plate has been corrected, and it's typical for leveling characters to have mostly blue gear, instead of mostly questing greens as was common before dungeon queuing was a thing. Heirlooms are very common, and extremely potent compared to typical gear at most levels. Finally, most of the characters leveling are alts; it's rare to see more than one actual new player in a lowbie group.

To put it into perspective, the typical DPS at level 65 in expansion-appropriate gear does about the damage you wanted for a fresh 80 to pull in heroics.

The problem is, low level HAS to be balanced around the complete newbie in quest greens, or else you run the risk of locking people out because they don't have heirlooms, or didn't get enough drops in lower level dungeons to keep up with the gear curve, or leaving a newbie completely unable to learn to play group content because there is no entry level. You can't make every dungeon in the game as hard as BC heroics were in 2.0 (which I have seen suggested; Blizzard tired this for the early Cataclysm heroics, and it was a train wreck-- it turns out that requiring groups to have CC and interrupts, then matching up random groups that may not have CC or someone with an interrupt at all, doesn't work.) But things are, indeed, out of whack, even beyond the fact that low level stuff has to be tuned for a newbie-- mostly, HP and outgoing damage numbers need tweaked somewhat.

Also, as a tank you'll see your damage way above DPS for quite a while. This doesn't mean the DPS is bad, so don't get on their backs. It's a combination of tanks getting their AoE before most DPS classes and tanks being tuned to have high damage (proportionately) at low levels (possibly to help newbie tanks keep threat against DPS in heirlooms, possibly just bad tuning.)

Note on Cata interrupts-- This is actually why all tanks have interrupts now. In 4.0 the paladin interrupt was a talent in the ret tree, deep enough that prot paladins couldn't get it. Because every other tank could interrupt, Blizzard finally made interrupting a paladin baseline so that they could design 5-man fights around something getting interrupted.
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#5BlackSparrow720(Topic Creator)Posted 3/20/2013 10:59:16 PM
How are the raids then? I can understand the lower level stuff but what about raiding? I like some degree of difficulty when it comes to that.
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"Jesus was black, Ronald Reagon was the devil, and the government is lying about 911" -Huey Freeman
#6DawnshadowPosted 3/21/2013 12:12:59 AM
BlackSparrow720 posted...
How are the raids then? I can understand the lower level stuff but what about raiding? I like some degree of difficulty when it comes to that.


Low level raids, played at level, suffer the same problem-- player power has inflated, content has not been adjusted to compensate.

Current content raids have been split into three strata. LFR mode is easy mode, made for pugs. It has lower level items, and is queued for. It's very easy, to make up for the complete lack of anything resembling coordination. It's not intended to be particularly hard.

Normal mode is your entry level "real" raiding. It's not insanely hard, but a decent challenge for the typical player.

Heroic mode raiding is likely what you're looking for. It has higher item level gear, and more complex versions of encounters. Occasionally a raid will have a heroic mode only boss. Generally, an elite heroic raiding guild will clear the normal mode in a week or two, then start on heroic mode; more typical guilds will do normal until a boss starts to feel too easy, then only do those easy bosses on heroic, slowly adding more on as they gain experience, skill and gear.

And, you may ask, why are raids split up like this now? It's because hardly anyone DID the vanilla and BC raids, aside from the entry level ones, because they took too much time to get into (not even skill-- farming resist gear or getting 40 Onyxia scale cloaks isn't exactly a skill challenge.) I'm doing the numbers from memory, so they may be off, but something like 4% of the original player base set foot in Naxxramus in vanilla, and only a tiny portion of THOSE actually cleared it. The numbers for Sunwell weren't much better. Raids take a ton of developer time and effort to make, so the devs decided to make raids more accessible so more people could participate and see the storylines without having to resort to Youtube videos. This isn't at all a bad thing, as hard mode still exists for people who are challenge fiends (and if heroic mode STILL isn't hard enough, you can limit your maximum item level or something.) On a purely mechanical level, raid fights are more complex and intricate than ever (although often a little more forgiving as far as gear grinding goes.)
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I have a blog! Warcraft and other gamer musings.
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#7BlackSparrow720(Topic Creator)Posted 3/21/2013 12:52:26 AM
^Ahh, okay. That about answers all of my questions. Thanks.
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"Jesus was black, Ronald Reagon was the devil, and the government is lying about 911" -Huey Freeman