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I seem to have inherited a Paladin. How important is expertise?

#1Lightning BoltPosted 3/28/2013 9:36:29 AM
510-ish ilvl for Prot spec, so pretty much an exact sidegrade from my main. Hitting the expertise hard cap is cake, but are there any Prot Pallies here who could explain why that would be worthwhile?

In the interest of offense, it seems to be a coin toss between Haste and Expertise which does more damage. Obviously up until 7.5% Expertise is better since it applies to more attacks, but afterwards it applies solely to... white swings, ShoR, and CS? Why am I dumping 2.5k rating into that?

But we're tanks, so we go for defense first, right? It affects the accuracy of CS, which means that one of my 3 HoPo generators will miss 7.5% of the time. So for 2.5k rating I can get like 3% more HoPo... that's a bit less than convincing as well, especially considering that Haste will give 6% more for the same budget.

But seeing as I have literally zero raid experience playing as a Prot Pally I'm sure there's a reason so many go for the hard cap. Anyone able to enlighten me? :>
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One day dude, I'm just gonna get off the bus, and I'm gonna run in the woods and never come back, and when I come back I'm gonna be the knife master!
-The Rev
#2silentzedPosted 3/28/2013 9:46:40 AM(edited)
Not sure if relevant, but hitting expertise hard cap for me (Warrior) means never missing the abilities that generate Rage, which I use to mitigate incoming damage.

Monk tanks I understand to be the same.
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#3WonASCPosted 3/28/2013 9:42:42 AM
Its pretty important for snap threat on boss pulls. If you get a string of 3 party's/misses then it can turn bad pretty quickly.
#4Lightning Bolt(Topic Creator)Posted 3/28/2013 9:54:27 AM(edited)
silentzed posted...
Not sure if relevant, but hitting expertise hard cap for me (Warrior) means never missing the abilities that generate Rage, which I use to mitigate incoming damage.

Monk tanks I understand to be the same.


Aye I totally get Warriors, they're purely physical beasts and both of their rage generators can be Parried afaik.
Not the same for Pally though. Half the attacks are spells (satisfied by 15% spell hit).

WonASC posted...
Its pretty important for snap threat on boss pulls. If you get a string of 3 party's/misses then it can turn bad pretty quickly.


Surely Avenger's Shield/Judgement/Consecration/Holy Wrath would be enough to hold aggro just on their own even if absolutely everything parry-able gets parried? Maybe not over the other tank if he's got something going on, but he can gtfo if he pulls off and the dps won't be able to.
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One day dude, I'm just gonna get off the bus, and I'm gonna run in the woods and never come back, and when I come back I'm gonna be the knife master!
-The Rev
#5ChocoboMog123Posted 3/28/2013 10:10:31 AM
I don't know how I haven't f***ing bookmarked this, yet, but...

Here's where the theorycrafting really got started: http://sacredduty.net/2012/10/02/damage-smoothing-expertise-mastery-and-haste/
Here are current sims: http://sacredduty.net/2013/03/22/is-nothing-sacred/

If you want to add your own gearsets: http://code.google.com/p/matlabadin/source/browse/trunk/blog/pally_mc_smooth.m?r=558

If you look at the numbers (and this is mostly just going off the top of my head), hard capping Expertise actually makes you take more damage, on average, but significantly reduces the amount of damage spikes you'll take. It's a matter of consistency versus average damage taken, IIRC. But, the numbers are there to dig through.
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#6Lightning Bolt(Topic Creator)Posted 3/28/2013 11:17:42 AM
Yeah I've seen Theck's work, but the math against a boss that can only autoattack only means so much (and even there Haste seems like it's ****ing amazing, excluding the articles that came before the Grand Crusader change).

Rather get some personal experience/explanation here tbh, the other half of tanking (as opposed to dps which is pretty much pure math).

Thanks though, you're a good man. >_>b
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One day dude, I'm just gonna get off the bus, and I'm gonna run in the woods and never come back, and when I come back I'm gonna be the knife master!
-The Rev
#7bdavis93Posted 3/28/2013 11:28:38 AM
WonASC posted...
Its pretty important for snap threat on boss pulls. If you get a string of 3 party's/misses then it can turn bad pretty quickly.


If that happens just blame your rogue or hunter.