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65000-70000 dps good for an iLvl 493 fury warrior who clicks?

#11halomonkey1_3_5Posted 3/31/2013 5:10:31 AM
Elaeus posted...
It depends on the class really. I will agree that classes with less complicated rotations will notice a 10%-15% increase but trust me when your hands get all busy especially on trash heavy fights you will get further increase.


Obviously some classes/specs will be much easier to play with keybinds, but the majority of players(even raiders) dont use 2/3rds of their spellbook to begin with, and keybinding VS having to click 5-8 spells per fight isnt too much of a difference(especially when 2-4 of them are CDs).

Elaeus posted...
Still 10%-15% in PvE IS actually game breaking when you are talking from a competitive point of view. If you check top 200 world dps in any spec for the most part the difference between, say, rank 54 and rank 53 is in the 100-500 dps, so in your example the 10% is the difference between getting ranked (competitive) or not.


I wouldnt say anyone who clicks is going to be getting any world rankings anytime soon, although 10% extra DPS could mean the difference between progressing at a reasonable pace or not.

And of course healing and tanking both would require keybinding to much higher degree than DPSing does, so if you're clicking as a healer/tank, you would probably see a much bigger increase in efficiency by keybinding.

If you're doing serious progression than you're holding your group back by clicking, but if you're a more casual guild than you probably have quite a few more things holding you back than one of your DPS clicking instead of keybinding.
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Billy Mays: July 20, 1958 - June 28, 2009
The Greatest
#12ElaeusPosted 3/31/2013 5:18:23 AM
halomonkey1_3_5 posted...
but the majority of players(even raiders) dont use 2/3rds of their spellbook to begin with, and keybinding VS having to click 5-8 spells per fight isnt too much of a difference(especially when 2-4 of them are CDs).


An increament is an increament regardless of number of the spells. In fact, if you have less spells to bind then your fingers should react significantly faster resulting into even further increase.

I wouldnt say anyone who clicks is going to be getting any world rankings anytime soon, although 10% extra DPS could mean the difference between progressing at a reasonable pace or not.


The original discussion was about clicking and being competitive. You can't really have both, that's all what I was saying. I agree with you on principle but I was addressing the point in discussion.

And of course healing and tanking both would require keybinding to much higher degree than DPSing does, so if you're clicking as a healer/tank, you would probably see a much bigger increase in efficiency by keybinding.


Well half true in case of healing. The main issue healers and tanks got are ain't the amount of spells they dish out per second (of course that is absolutely important), but it is more about being able to move and handle other tasks than their required tasks. But yeah, I agree in general, though that doesn't mean it's less important in DPS case.

If you're doing serious progression than you're holding your group back by clicking, but if you're a more casual guild than you probably have quite a few more things holding you back than one of your DPS clicking instead of keybinding.


While might not be your only issue, shouldn't it count as one in order to push for group's improvement? I think that's the difference between good groups and not so good groups (speaking with ignoring world class groups and players). Good groups will definitely want to figure out all their weaknesses and act accordingly for fixes.

While not a weakness for example, my group had an issue with people being less active on vocal coordination at one point in WotLK. What did we do? We made them raid lead alt runs, because while they are good players in their own accord, they should also learn how to be good in a team.
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#13halomonkey1_3_5Posted 3/31/2013 5:35:17 AM
Elaeus posted...
An increament is an increament regardless of number of the spells. In fact, if you have less spells to bind then your fingers should react significantly faster resulting into even further increase.


When i clicked(from wrath to mid cata), I was waiting on the GCD more often than waiting on my mouse actually getting to my spells, so keybinding would have been a lateral move on fights where i could stand still. If you're a DK or have a short GCD I can understand that, but more often than not you're still limited by the GCD and latency more than how fast you can actually hit the buttons if you're not moving.

Elaeus posted...
The original discussion was about clicking and being competitive. You can't really have both, that's all what I was saying. I agree with you on principle but I was addressing the point in discussion.


I interpreted being competent as being competitive within his raids(or in raids of his skill level) DPS, not as being competitive on the world rankings. My bad, i guess.

Elaeus posted...
Well half true in case of healing. The main issue healers and tanks got are ain't the amount of spells they dish out per second (of course that is absolutely important), but it is more about being able to move and handle other tasks than their required tasks. But yeah, I agree in general, though that doesn't mean it's less important in DPS case.


Thats what I was trying convey(being able to handle movement and other mechanics without your healing/tanking going kaput until you stand still again).

Elaeus posted...
While might not be your only issue, shouldn't it count as one in order to push for group's improvement? I think that's the difference between good groups and not so good groups (speaking with ignoring world class groups and players). Good groups will definitely want to figure out all their weaknesses and act accordingly for fixes.


At least in some of the guilds I've been in, they were more casual and had more problems with attendance and with people being lax in the amount of time/effort they put in outside of raid nights(I.E. not getting exalted with factions, not reforging/enchanting/etc). Obviously 10% is still 10% more DPS, but when your raid is lacking coordination and cohesion, that 10% DPS is probably not going to make a giant difference, especially if most of your problems come from people being morons instead of just hitting enrage timers or something along those lines.

And we're talking about different levels of guilds and situations, I think. You're talking about real raiders and I'm talking about a very casual raid team >.>

If you aren't keybinding you're holding your group back, but in a lot of situations that's if far from the biggest issue holding a team back, in my experience.
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Billy Mays: July 20, 1958 - June 28, 2009
The Greatest
#14steveoSEKPosted 3/31/2013 6:15:39 PM
From: Elaeus | #006
steveoSEK posted...
From: WaffIeElite | #003
Unfortunately that number is on the low end of what to expect from LFR in Throne of Thunder. Seriously, don't click. That "I've raided clicking for years!" crap people usually say only equates to "I've raided poorly for years!". You will see a tremendous difference if you fix that.



i specifically play a class and spec that i CAN click with because keybinds are super unnatural feeling for me. i've tried for years and years and years in many different mmo's, it just doesn't feel right for me, but i don't wanna drag anyone down with me but i still wanna have fun so i specifically play classes you can click with and be competent.


There is nothing about clicking that makes you competent. If you do 75k dps clicking, you will do potentially 125k keybinding, which is kind of the point the poster you quoted was making.

Now sure, your clicking can get you carried in LFR and some normal modes, but you will never make it in the top end scene which means you will never be competitive as a result.



i don't WANT to be in the competitive end. i specifically avoid doing non lfr raids with anyone but my guild, and in my guild runs i use my keybinds and hate it, then all other times i click.

it's a combination of me being lazy sometimes, and me having naturally terrible reaction time(hence i suck at nearly every video game, i manage though).
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#15LanceFlugermanPosted 3/31/2013 6:48:59 PM
All encounters are designed with clickers in mind.
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#16MarndosPosted 3/31/2013 6:55:59 PM(edited)
steveoSEK posted...
keybinds are super unnatural feeling for me.


Pressing a button on your keyboard to make stuff happen onscreen feels unnatural to you?

How do you handle using a computer?

LanceFlugerman posted...
All encounters are designed with clickers in mind.


I agree with this.
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Please change your vector and move to a different coordinate because this quadrant is off limits.
#17Arlundar2Posted 3/31/2013 7:32:08 PM
I dont even understand how would clicking lower dps...

the gcd give you more then enought time to click 3-4 skill while your waiting
#18AnaTheCatPosted 3/31/2013 7:42:19 PM
Clicking only has a noticeable impact in pvp. It does not matter for PvE at all. Anyone who says anything otherwise is just saying so to troll you.
#19steveoSEKPosted 3/31/2013 8:07:11 PM
From: Marndos | #016
steveoSEK posted...
keybinds are super unnatural feeling for me.


Pressing a button on your keyboard to make stuff happen onscreen feels unnatural to you?

How do you handle using a computer?

LanceFlugerman posted...
All encounters are designed with clickers in mind.


I agree with this.



no i mean having to reach away from the WSAD is annoying for me, i have a smaller keyboard, not a gaming one.
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#20MarndosPosted 3/31/2013 10:03:14 PM
steveoSEK posted...
no i mean having to reach away from the WSAD is annoying for me


Then go into the options and bind the spots to different keys? Here's my 12-key hotbar:

1 2 3 4 5 Q E R F V C X

Note how they all wrap around WASD nicely. Nobody who's serious about keybinding keeps using the default 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 - = lol.
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Please change your vector and move to a different coordinate because this quadrant is off limits.